Innovative Technologies Collet Die

[Bingoc]

Some background: I have been primarily a hunter for about 55 years and therefore haven't spent a lot of time shooting paper. I find a load that gives me the performance that I need and use it year in and year out. So my guns do not have a lot of rounds through them. But I have reloaded for as long as I can remember, and as a hunter have full length resized my brass using the guidance from the die manufacturer. Needless to say I have experienced case separation especially on the magnum calibers i.e., 264 WM, 300 Wea. 338 WM, and 375 H&H. The brass grows routinely 0.007 to 0.008 in. per shooting. I trim it back and start over again. Routinely after 3 reloads it forms a crystalline ring about 0.25 in. above the belt, and I discard it as I can't depend on it. I primarily hunt alone where my best friend is my pack frame and cotton alfalfa seed bag and don't need any case separations.

I have read from the forums how many of you neck size to extend the life of the brass and gain better accuracy. I have tried it on the 300 Wea brass, and they still do not chamber very easily. So I think that I need some tutoring to get it right. But in the meantime, I have also heard that a company called Innovative Technologies has a Collet Die especially made for the above mentioned magnum calibers. From what I gather it is to be used after the case is full length sized. I think that this die reduces the expanded case to its original size all the way down to the top of the belt. This supposedly allows the case to be used for many more than three reloads. I would think that this process work-hardens the brass, and one would still get early failures.

My question is: Have any of you had any experience with this Collet Die, and what were the results, and would you recommend it?

Thanks for your time

 

[FEENIX]

Some background: I have been primarily a hunter for about 55 years and therefore haven't spent a lot of time shooting paper. I find a load that gives me the performance that I need and use it year in and year out. So my guns do not have a lot of rounds through them. But I have reloaded for as long as I can remember, and as a hunter have full length resized my brass using the guidance from the die manufacturer. Needless to say I have experienced case separation especially on the magnum calibers i.e., 264 WM, 300 Wea. 338 WM, and 375 H&H. The brass grows routinely 0.007 to 0.008 in. per shooting. I trim it back and start over again. Routinely after 3 reloads it forms a crystalline ring about 0.25 in. above the belt, and I discard it as I can't depend on it. I primarily hunt alone where my best friend is my pack frame and cotton alfalfa seed bag and don't need any case separations.

I have read from the forums how many of you neck size to extend the life of the brass and gain better accuracy. I have tried it on the 300 Wea brass, and they still do not chamber very easily. So I think that I need some tutoring to get it right. But in the meantime, I have also heard that a company called Innovative Technologies has a Collet Die especially made for the above mentioned magnum calibers. From what I gather it is to be used after the case is full length sized. I think that this die reduces the expanded case to its original size all the way down to the top of the belt. This supposedly allows the case to be used for many more than three reloads. I would think that this process work-hardens the brass, and one would still get early failures.

My question is: Have any of you had any experience with this Collet Die, and what were the results, and would you recommend it?

Thanks for your time

Are you referring to this? >>> http://larrywillis.com/

If so, I have one but have not used it yet.

 

[sturner]

I have to second not to neck size after the third time neck sizing I found it hard to chamber and even harder to get out after fires
Brass is cheap
I load for .264 WM and .300 WM I've never had a case separation problem
What kind of Brass are you using?
And what dies do you use?

 

[ShtrRdy]

I have one of the collet dies and use it when needed on magnum cases. It just works on the case immediately above the belt. It doesn't resize any other part of the case.

 

[entoptics]

...But I have reloaded for as long as I can remember, and as a hunter have full length resized my brass using the guidance from the die manufacturer. Needless to say I have experienced case separation especially on the magnum calibers i.e., 264 WM, 300 Wea. 338 WM, and 375 H&H. The brass grows routinely 0.007 to 0.008 in. per shooting. I trim it back and start over again. Routinely after 3 reloads it forms a crystalline ring about 0.25 in. above the belt, and I discard it as I can't depend on it...

The die instructions result in excessive shoulder headspace for almost all rifles. They bump the shoulder back far enough that the shortest possible chamber will still have enough clearance to chamber a resized piece of brass properly.

Very few rifles have "the shortest possible chamber".

Invest in some gauges, and measure your fired brass from base to shoulder datum. Once you have this number, set up your die too far out, and size a case and measure the same base to shoulder. Often, when the die is far away from correct, the case will actually grow a little. Slowly lower the die 1/16th of a turn at a time, sizing a different case each time, until you achieve 0.0015" -0.0035" reduction from the fired measurement. As you get close, 1/32 of a turn will be all you need to start dialing it in.

Bam. Done. You now have brass that will chamber nicely, but won't grow excessively when fired. There's some theories that suggest it will be more accurate too.

Like Baby Bear's soup. Not to loose, but not too tight.

 

[dok7mm]

I have the collet die on my bench and have used it on previous factory chambered belted magnums, but not so much on my current 7STW and 7RM customs cut with tighter reamer specs.

The collet dies are excellent on when using on belted mags that are cut with loose chambers and are run at higher pressures. The brass can expand to the point where standard FL dies can not resize the lower portion of the case, because of length of die & the beveled base. The collet die will resize to the belt.

That said, I believe the OPs problem with early case head separation is more likely the result of excessive shoulder bump on each firing. I would find exactly what my base to datum length was in each of my chambers and bump no more than .002". I would also resize to the belt with the collet die, if I was getting expansion in that area.

I would suggest the OP do some measuring on each step from new brass to fired brass, circumferences, BTD length and OAL length. Also to cut open some cases to check if there is potential for case separation.

 

[cohunt]

I have the lw die also
bought it to resize 1x fired 7rm brass from another rifle as when I tried to fl size it, fl die was plowing brass back towards the belt and creating a raised ridge so it wouldn't chamber--- for my situation I had to use the lw die to size the body first, then the fl die

 

[dok7mm]

I have the lw die also
bought it to resize 1x fired 7rm brass from another rifle as when I tried to fl size it, fl die was plowing brass back towards the belt and creating a raised ridge so it wouldn't chamber--- for my situation I had to use the lw die to size the body first, then the fl die

I've also seen that. That's why I asked OP to cut open some cases to see if there is indeed case separation. I often used collet first, then full length dies, as it took less pressure on press.

 

[Hondo64d]

Some background: I have been primarily a hunter for about 55 years and therefore haven't spent a lot of time shooting paper. I find a load that gives me the performance that I need and use it year in and year out. So my guns do not have a lot of rounds through them. But I have reloaded for as long as I can remember, and as a hunter have full length resized my brass using the guidance from the die manufacturer. Needless to say I have experienced case separation especially on the magnum calibers i.e., 264 WM, 300 Wea. 338 WM, and 375 H&H. The brass grows routinely 0.007 to 0.008 in. per shooting. I trim it back and start over again. Routinely after 3 reloads it forms a crystalline ring about 0.25 in. above the belt, and I discard it as I can't depend on it. I primarily hunt alone where my best friend is my pack frame and cotton alfalfa seed bag and don't need any case separations.

I have read from the forums how many of you neck size to extend the life of the brass and gain better accuracy. I have tried it on the 300 Wea brass, and they still do not chamber very easily. So I think that I need some tutoring to get it right. But in the meantime, I have also heard that a company called Innovative Technologies has a Collet Die especially made for the above mentioned magnum calibers. From what I gather it is to be used after the case is full length sized. I think that this die reduces the expanded case to its original size all the way down to the top of the belt. This supposedly allows the case to be used for many more than three reloads. I would think that this process work-hardens the brass, and one would still get early failures.

My question is: Have any of you had any experience with this Collet Die, and what were the results, and would you recommend it?

Thanks for your time

As mentioned, if getting case head separation, you are pushing your shoulder back too far. Adjust your die so you are only pushing the shoulder back .001 to .002" from a case fired in that chamber. If it still won't chamber, then your resizing die, even though pushing the shoulder back adequately, is not adequately resizing the body immediately in front of the belt. That is where the Willis Collet die comes in. I have one and it works as advertised. I don't shoot belted magnums any more so would be willing to let it go very reasonably if interested.

John

 

[Thescandinavian]

I have only thought about buying one of those, but not gotten around it.
When I first started reading I thought OMFG now someone will post that video of that guy shouting about he's passionate hate for necksizing.
Some do it, some don't and I tried both and have failed at both. Simply because I have English reloading manuals without being a native speaker. Do what works for you and don't follow advice from someone that needs to shout to make he's message come trough.

 

[AllenJ]

I purchased a Willis Collet die during the great brass depression of 20??. When you can't get brass and need to use stuff that has been loaded a few times it is a very valuable tool in my opinion, and it'll pay for itself pretty quickly. It does add a couple steps to the reloading process but for a hunter it is well worth the time.

 

[Bingoc]

Are you referring to this? >>> http://larrywillis.com/

If so, I have one but have not used it yet.

View attachment 167887

This is the die.

 

[Bingoc]

I have to second not to neck size after the third time neck sizing I found it hard to chamber and even harder to get out after fires
Brass is cheap
I load for .264 WM and .300 WM I've never had a case separation problem
What kind of Brass are you using?
And what dies do you use?

I use Wea brass for the 300 Wea and both Win and Rem brass for the .264 WM and RCBS dies.

 

[Bingoc]

I have one of the collet dies and use it when needed on magnum cases. It just works on the case immediately above the belt. It doesn't resize any other part of the case.

Have you found that using it increases your case life?