I've tested 4955 and 4451 from -3 to 54 in a 6.5 creed. The load has an es of 14 with 4955/142's and was inside of that so far. The 4451 I'm going to play with in the 308 when I get some more time. I have not shot much above 40 yet. That powder with 120/123's is also mid teens es and so far has stayed that way in the creed.