Hydrostatic shock?

[Reverend Mr. Black]

From a physics standpoint, this English Major may be the least educated here on the technical aspects of "shock." You'll get no arguments from me on that and I am a true Fan of Nathan Foster. Have his books and spend much time on his website, always learning / confirming.

Use whatever "shock" terms you like. IMHO, shock with the right bullet - at the right speed - does exist and yeah, "it" helps killing - plain and simple. Can I explain it? No. But..........hard to argue the animal's reaction to that hit / shock, witnessed too many times.

Cheers ya'll.

 

[WYO300RUM]

If you hit the heart, there's no need to bleed out and shock doesn't matter much I think. I does if you dont .
If you take the lungs out it will keep moving until it runs out of oxygen and it's brain stops functioning. Shock to the lungs maybe ?
If you hit neither then I guess shock is your friend.

I most times aim mid shoulder. You bust the shoulder and it goes down with lungs taken out.

A buddy shot a Whitetail doe last year at about 150 yards. It went right down dead.
I had shot a doe also so I was working on mine and not paying attention to him. He said I hit her in the stomach. Say what ? It dropped like a shoulder shot !
I asked did you hit the liver ? Said no. I just shook my head . Heck if I know.
Maybe it was an example of hydrostatic shock ? I didn't walk over and verify if hit the liver or not. Even if he did I cant see the doe just dropping like from a liver shot unless hydrostatic shock did it.
It was a 300 wm w/180 Hammer Hunter at around 3100 fps.

 

[FEENIX]

From a physics standpoint, this English Major may be the least educated here on the technical aspects of "shock." You'll get no arguments from me on that and I am a true Fan of Nathan Foster. Have his books and spend much time on his website, always learning / confirming.

Use whatever "shock" terms you like. IMHO, shock with the right bullet - at the right speed - does exist and yeah, "it" helps killing - plain and simple. Can I explain it? No. But..........hard to argue the animal's reaction to that hit / shock, witnessed too many times.

Cheers ya'll.

You're educated enough to know Nathan and his field works.

 

[G Arlen Good]

Some might find this interesting... others won't.

Best regards


Scientific Evidence for "Hydrostatic Shock"
Michael Courtney, PhD
Ballistics Testing Group, P.O. Box 24, West Point, NY 10996
[email protected]
Amy Courtney, PhD
Department of Physics, United States Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996
[email protected]

Abstract:
This paper reviews the scientific support for a ballistic pressure wave radiating outward from a
penetrating projectile and causing injury and incapacitation. This phenomenon is known
colloquially as "hydrostatic shock." The idea apparently originates with Col. Frank Chamberlin, a
World War II trauma surgeon and wound ballistics researcher. The paper reviews claims that
hydrostatic shock is a myth and considers supporting evidence through parallels with blast,
describing the physics of the pressure wave, evidence for remote cerebral effects, and remote
effects in the spine and other internal organs. Finally, the review considers the levels of energy
transfer required for the phenomenon to be readily observed.

 

[Chadp82]

The law of conservation of energy says energy is not created nor destroyed, but can change form.

So right before impact the bullet energy is only kinetic. As it makes contact energy transfer occurs. The things I can think of that would the energy would transfer to are: sound/heat generated at impact, the initial entry to the bone/tissues at impact, the friction when it tears through the flesh/bone, and the energy of the bullet fragmenting. Maybe there are others.

At impact, like a ball being thrown at a wall, energy goes into the body.

As the bullet passes through the friction is tearing tissues and transferring energy to the stretching and tearing, which could damage tissues beyond the wound channel itself. Tissues are elastic to some point so they would stretch/tear and return somewhat to the pre-wound condition, but they were damaged in the process.

Just a few things to think about. Whatever terminology is used, the energy transfer, in whatever form it looks like is likely causing damage in addition to the physical hole being punched. I would also thinks is possible it could damage the CNS or cardiovascular system several inches or maybe feet from the wound due to the energy being absorbed by the system in another part of the body.

 

[xsn10s]

Some might find this interesting... others won't.

Best regards


Scientific Evidence for "Hydrostatic Shock"
Michael Courtney, PhD
Ballistics Testing Group, P.O. Box 24, West Point, NY 10996
[email protected]
Amy Courtney, PhD
Department of Physics, United States Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996
[email protected]

Abstract:
This paper reviews the scientific support for a ballistic pressure wave radiating outward from a
penetrating projectile and causing injury and incapacitation. This phenomenon is known
colloquially as "hydrostatic shock." The idea apparently originates with Col. Frank Chamberlin, a
World War II trauma surgeon and wound ballistics researcher. The paper reviews claims that
hydrostatic shock is a myth and considers supporting evidence through parallels with blast,
describing the physics of the pressure wave, evidence for remote cerebral effects, and remote
effects in the spine and other internal organs. Finally, the review considers the levels of energy
transfer required for the phenomenon to be readily observed.

If you look at the actual body of work it goes into greater detail of how the hydrostatic shock dispels Dr Facklers and Dr Chamberlins belief that it was a myth. And illustrates how the shock causes permanent tissue damage. From the study "

 

[Phil Rizzo]

If you hit the heart, there's no need to bleed out and shock doesn't matter much I think. I does if you dont .
If you take the lungs out it will keep moving until it runs out of oxygen and it's brain stops functioning. Shock to the lungs maybe ?
If you hit neither then I guess shock is your friend.

I most times aim mid shoulder. You bust the shoulder and it goes down with lungs taken out.

A buddy shot a Whitetail doe last year at about 150 yards. It went right down dead.
I had shot a doe also so I was working on mine and not paying attention to him. He said I hit her in the stomach. Say what ? It dropped like a shoulder shot !
I asked did you hit the liver ? Said no. I just shook my head . Heck if I know.
Maybe it was an example of hydrostatic shock ? I didn't walk over and verify if hit the liver or not. Even if he did I cant see the doe just dropping like from a liver shot unless hydrostatic shock did it.
It was a 300 wm w/180 Hammer Hunter at around 3100 fps.

Mid shoulder is my default as well.
The big muscles and lungs get damaged.

Game over, now or very soon after. Large margin for error too.

 

[Peddler 76]

I still prefer to target heart or lungs. I like to save the meat.

 

[Turpentine21]

I've seen about a dozen different coyotes shot through both shoulders… that had several feet of intestine blown out of their a$$hole. You can call it whatever you want…. but "shock" is certainly a part of it.

Yep, Nathan Foster used to write about the paunch and entrails. coming out of the sides and bottom with a hit in the crease,In front of the diaphragm with his 7mm Practical and 162 Amax on goats and similar sized game. I doubt severe constipation had that effect. But I've felt like that might cause such an effect in me a couple times. Something has to give.

 

[FEENIX]

Some might find this interesting... others won't.

Best regards


Scientific Evidence for "Hydrostatic Shock"
Michael Courtney, PhD
Ballistics Testing Group, P.O. Box 24, West Point, NY 10996
[email protected]
Amy Courtney, PhD
Department of Physics, United States Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996
[email protected]

Abstract:
This paper reviews the scientific support for a ballistic pressure wave radiating outward from a
penetrating projectile and causing injury and incapacitation. This phenomenon is known
colloquially as "hydrostatic shock." The idea apparently originates with Col. Frank Chamberlin, a
World War II trauma surgeon and wound ballistics researcher. The paper reviews claims that
hydrostatic shock is a myth and considers supporting evidence through parallels with blast,
describing the physics of the pressure wave, evidence for remote cerebral effects, and remote
effects in the spine and other internal organs. Finally, the review considers the levels of energy
transfer required for the phenomenon to be readily observed.

Michael used to be an active member here have shared some of his work.

 

[WYO300RUM]

Mid shoulder is my default as well.
The big muscles and lungs get damaged.

Game over, now or very soon after. Large margin for error too.

Exactly. 90% of the time where I aim. Like eating heart also. Doesn't destroy it.

 

[Huntaddict]

Some might find this interesting... others won't.

Best regards


Scientific Evidence for "Hydrostatic Shock"
Michael Courtney, PhD
Ballistics Testing Group, P.O. Box 24, West Point, NY 10996
[email protected]
Amy Courtney, PhD
Department of Physics, United States Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996
[email protected]

Abstract:
This paper reviews the scientific support for a ballistic pressure wave radiating outward from a
penetrating projectile and causing injury and incapacitation. This phenomenon is known
colloquially as "hydrostatic shock." The idea apparently originates with Col. Frank Chamberlin, a
World War II trauma surgeon and wound ballistics researcher. The paper reviews claims that
hydrostatic shock is a myth and considers supporting evidence through parallels with blast,
describing the physics of the pressure wave, evidence for remote cerebral effects, and remote
effects in the spine and other internal organs. Finally, the review considers the levels of energy
transfer required for the phenomenon to be readily observed.

Posted a link to the entire paper a few pages ago. Highly regarded publication

 

[ENGUNEER]

Too many posts for me to rad them all so someone else may have already said this. I don't believe hydrostatic shock will immediately kill an animal. What I believe is that the hydrostatic shock is real (you expect it from the physics and can see it in ballistic gel) and it causes something like a blood pressure spike or nerve damage that knocks the animal down and maybe out and it dies from blood loss before it can recover. If you don't get the shock effect or hit the spine the animal is going to run until it bleeds to death.

 

[AkleyFan]

Using AI generated output to state my understanding and beliefs - and it spells better than I do:

Hydraulic shock, often confused with hydrostatic shock, refers to the pressure wave created when a bullet impacts soft tissue, potentially causing damage beyond the immediate wound. This phenomenon can lead to rapid incapacitation due to the shock waves affecting nearby organs and tissues.

Understanding Hydraulic Shock

Hydraulic shock refers to the pressure wave generated when a bullet strikes soft tissue. This phenomenon can cause damage not only at the point of impact but also in surrounding areas, potentially leading to rapid incapacitation.

Mechanism of Hydraulic Shock

When a bullet impacts a target, it creates a shock wave that travels through the tissue. This wave can affect nearby organs and tissues, causing them to malfunction or shut down. The key aspects of hydraulic shock include:

• Pressure Wave Creation: The impact generates a pressure wave that can reach thousands of psi.
• Remote Damage: The shock wave can cause damage to tissues and organs that are not directly hit by the bullet.
• Rapid Incapacitation: The effects of hydraulic shock can lead to quick incapacitation, sometimes even before significant blood loss occurs.

Factors Influencing Hydraulic Shock

Several factors determine the effectiveness of hydraulic shock in causing damage:

Factor	Description
Bullet Velocity	Higher velocities (typically over 2,000 fps) enhance shock wave effects.
Tissue Type	Soft tissues with high water content are more susceptible to shock waves.
Projectile Design	Bullets designed for rapid energy transfer can maximize hydraulic shock effects.

Importance in Ammunition Selection

Hydraulic shock plays a significant role in selecting ammunition for hunting and self-defense. Cartridges that create substantial shock waves are preferred for their ability to incapacitate quickly. For example, high-velocity rounds are often chosen for their potential to deliver effective hydraulic shock.

Conclusion

Hydraulic shock is a critical concept in understanding the effects of bullet impacts on living tissue. It highlights the importance of bullet design and velocity in achieving rapid incapacitation, making it a vital consideration in both hunting and tactical scenarios.

I love round nose bullets.