hybrid bullet w drive band?

[tony m]

So, ...all copper bullets are to long..Swaged copper /leads are not quite good enough either.Some of us want a drive band.Well, what about machining a product , a variation of the Barnes defunct mrx? Would it provide it all..shorter,a bore rider/w great tolerances?.

 

[Gerard Schultz]

So, ...all copper bullets are to long.

Why do you think that? If you have a standard rifle, simply pick a mono that is the correct length. Same length as the jacketed lead bullet you would use.

 

[tony m]

I thought you might respond,Gerard.That is great.I like the drive band idea,it seems to be progress.Bullet material might be another matter.All that I am saying is- it is worth exploring.Copper bullets are longer than lead/ core jacketed bullets of the same weight.Maybe Barnes bullets were onto something here.

 

[Gerard Schultz]

The manufacturing difficulty that comes up is that putting more than one material into a bullet introduces acentricity. This must be watched and controlled carefully and costs time and money. Introducing a third material such as a polymer tip is not that much of a problem as it is very close to the center line of the bullet and has a lesser effect. Doing a jacketed bullet is already difficult because one must watch the jacket thickness around the circumference as well as inclusions and uniformity of the core. This is the nightmare that everyone who swages jacketed bullets will tell about and I will take assured accuracy (concentricity) over that risk any day.

 

[Kennibear]

Seems to me that approach is asking to stack up tolerances between way too many machining/forming steps.

You would find a better approach if you could find another alloy that has the malleability of 95/5 gilding metal but is much lower in friction.
Although Moly coating does work, coatings in general have a problem with uneven deposition.

Didn't one of the bullet makers have a copper bullet with a lead slug in the base for higher density? As I recall they didn't shoot worth a hoot.

KB

 

[Gerard Schultz]

The only bullet with a lead rear core is the Winchester Fail Safe/Nosler CT.

It used to have a stepped cavity into which the lead core was inserted and it was closed off with a steel cap to prevent the core from squirting out on impact. It has been changed now and and the cavity is smoother and the steel disc, to close off the base, has been omitted.

 

[tony m]

Thanks all, but what I was getting at didn't involve a jacket..Can it not be machined? That way, this bullet is uniform, perhaps drilling the bullet base and introducing something with heavier properties? And including the dandy drive bands.Machined , except for the core.This would need to be poured, it seems.Just putting it out there, Gerard.Swaging bullets will at some time prove to be redundant. I would think it would be superior to the fail safe or mrx, by far.And the bullet maker will have another option for his customers, that does not breach his original propriety.

 

[Kennibear]

CEB's are $2+ per bullet and everyone complains. I would like a bullet that homes in on an infrared laser dot out to 2k yards. And please do it for less than $4 per.

The steps you have mentioned are all doable but for a price. Especially if there is a tight tolerance spec. Your idea is at least $3 per right now, maybe more.

How much will you pay?

KB

 

[tony m]

I certainly will pay for quality..but, it is not a cost issue for me really.Adding weight to the bullet as I remarked earlier would probebly cause stability issues as I see it now.I believe c.e.b's are a good product-not available in Canada though.If I am not mistaken the product I costed was around 1.00 or so.Cheers

 

[Deleted member 46119]

The Barnes MRX had a heavy core and costs $$$
Barnes TSX/TTSX are 'safe' as in known performance.
CEBs are not that $$
I need to get some GSC

So far I've shot TSX, TTSX and MTH.
I've only taken with TSX @ 300 yards but hunting buddy took game at over 1000 with TTSX using my loads.

I have CEB MTH loaded and waiting for hunt, same for TSX a d TTSX of course.

That is background for you to understand I'm not totally without thought and experience with Mono's/ non-lead.

So...

From a technical view point, I like the idea of a machined copper+heavy core, say tungsten hybrid.

Basically a machine turned version of the MRX but you are looking at $3+ for .308 caliber. I can't imagine how much a .338 or .375 high BC bullet would be.

I'm pretty sure the performance would be there but would the market?

 

[tony m]

Well ..at this point I am rethinking this idea.After feedback, some reading etc, I have another question and this is based on a simple kid's top as I reconfigured the weight on this.This crude little trial showed that the closer the bulk/mass was to the bearing point on the table, the more stable.The shorter, the more stable.So , I ask, adding more , denser material , to the base-will this destablize the gyroscope.It appears, to strenghthen the argument for a one material bullet..You tell me...have I being drinking? Would you like to join me?

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I'd love to. Arnold Palmer please.

The thinking part is really cool. It's what makes the US tick.