How to improve on bullet run out

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Bginvestor, Aug 29, 2015.

  1. Bginvestor

    Bginvestor Well-Known Member

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    Guys,

    Using an Arbor press w/ Wilson seating dies..

    If reloading a group of brass (with similar run-out at the neck); I'm producing about 10% with bullet run-out that is a lot worse than the average. Trying to figure out how to get better yields.. Say, the average is 1 mil ; I get a few that is around 5 to 6 mils

    Anybody have any ideas on what to improve? Thanks!
     
  2. ohiohunter

    ohiohunter Well-Known Member

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    My experience is far too low to answer this question, but I'm gonna poke at it anyways to test my train of thought when the vets comment. Quality dies and an arbor press should yield great results.

    Full length sizing and neck tension? Are you sizing the entire neck or partial? How many firings on the brass and do you anneal? Do you size w/ a button on your stem?
     
  3. Bginvestor

    Bginvestor Well-Known Member

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    Let's get this going!

    1)This rifle unfortunately generates a 5 mil run-out on the brass neck once fired; so, I've been using a Hornady full length sizing die with excellent results (button resize).
    2) I get an average of 1 mil run-out on the brass neck.
    3) This brass has been shot once. (no annealing).

    thx
     
  4. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    [ame]https://youtu.be/cCrU3vvHxmM?t=242[/ame]

    NOTE: There's more to it than the actual video presentation, i.e., emphasis on the reloading process and equipment, like ...

    [ame]https://youtu.be/jroMfxHPeYA?t=105[/ame]
     
  5. el matador

    el matador Well-Known Member

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    Some concentricity tools can measure the component bullets for tip runout. Might not hurt to check that before loading them. For me the most important thing is to never apply too much force to the neck/shoulder. Use lube inside the neck when sizing and use a dry lube of some kind when seating bullets. Those are the only 2 operations where you can induce runout if it's not already present.
     
  6. E. Dailing

    E. Dailing Well-Known Member

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    Do I understand your fired brass is not concentric? If it is not, your chamber may not be either? Quoted wrong post sorry.
     
  7. Mateo

    Mateo Well-Known Member

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    An old trick is to size your brass, rotate it 180 degrees in the shell holder then size again. Most of the time this will reduce your runout by half. But if your chambering job was done poorly and your chamber is off centre this is all in vain.
     
  8. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    Will have to give that a try ... learn something everyday. Thanks for sharing.
     
  9. rcoody

    rcoody Well-Known Member

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    I use a lee collet neck sizer. I do exactly that. Rotate the case and hit it again. My runout is usually less than 0.002. If they are they go in the cull pile.
     
  10. rcoody

    rcoody Well-Known Member

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    using the forster co-ax press will help a lot too! Even my full length forster .223 die produces little runout.

    I have a hard time understanding how you could get a chamber that is not concentric with the bore. how does it shoot.

    I shot a bunch of culls today. some were so bad you could see them wobbling on the concentricity gauge. At least 0.005. They shot in the 0.600's. Sometimes we take things to the extreme.
     
  11. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    My loaded rounds that have >.003" run out gets colored red with permanent marker. It will leave it's red marking on the bullet hole. Lately I've been shooting them into the group along with the straight ammo, rarely are they outside the group at 200 yards.
    HOWEVER, hunting or matches only get straight ammo.
     
  12. Bginvestor

    Bginvestor Well-Known Member

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    Your right, my chamber is not up to par! ;-( Its an awesome .223 predator gun, so I've taken the effort to make it work..

    However, forming the brass requires a full length to bring the neck back to concentric. Luckily, the Hornady die does a great job (surprisingly).

    I agree w/ forming twice, it works! I've done this before and reduces by .0005 to 1 mil usually.

    Thanks, for the suggestions, I went back and checked the ones with bad run out. I think I found the issue! The runout is worst than previously measured. So, the neck run out got worse after seating which jacked the bullet run out.

    For most examples, if I measured neck run out at 2 mils, I got bullet ogive 4 to 6 mil run out. If my neck was .5 to 1 mil , run out was 1 to 3 mils...

    So, with the new knowledge, I used dry lube to try and reduce seating force. Looks promising. Not sure what else I can do unless buying new dies. I think I am ruling out the wilson seating die (w arbor press) for now..

    This forum is great.

    PS: It shoots pretty good! 55 Sierra, 25 grn H335 at .01 from lands is the ticket
     
  13. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Bginvestor, have you measured neck thickness variance of your brass.
    Tell us about this brass/it's history.

    Oh & I should say, turning 180deg in a SIZING die won't change a thing.
    This notion applies only to bullet seating.
     
  14. Bginvestor

    Bginvestor Well-Known Member

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    Well, I ended up using Hornady brass since it was the only stuff that I could buy 6 months ago..

    I use the same type at least.. These are going through first or second firings...

    No, I do not measure neck wall thickness or neck turn. thx

    PS... Resizing neck twice helped me w/ some runout for some the outliers. I didn't do 180, but a second pass. Measurements confirm on most, not all.