How often do you find its the bullet not the powder combo your gun likes?

[coop2564]

Thinking back over time and reloading many bullet/powder combo's. I currently have 2 guns that like a bullet, much more than the bullet powder combo.

My 6.5PRC loves the 143gr eldx it shoots it .7moa with just about any powder load, and length. But it will not shoot the 142gr ABLR well with any powder I have tried.

I have a 243 win that just loves the 85gr TTSX it shoots it with most powders under 1moa, but most other bullets its very critical that the bullet/powder combo be just right and the node is small often. But with the 85gr it just shoots it good period, yes I can see a node, but its bad node is still 1moa where the good node is .5moa. With other bullets it might be .7moa in good node and 2" in a bad. Big swings are common with most bullets, but not the 85gr Barnes it will group great across 3grains of powder change.

Just wondering how many others have guns that just love a certain bullet, too where powder charge has little to do with its accuracy?

 

[Pdyson]

I think it's fairly common. When I began reloading in the late 70s I only had a fraction of the powder choices I have today. Yet in my experience it's the bullet not the powder that makes it work.
I recently bought two savage rifles. I was looking for a deer rifle for my 9yo grandson. His mothers 243 was way too long for him and I won't cut the stock on a family heirloom. I did some research and settled on the 6ARC.
I bought a savage axis from my LGS and added an inexpensive variable optic, and removed the spacer to shorten the stock. Brass was and still is unavailable so I bought 100 rnds of the only ammo I could find (Hornady 108 ELDM) mainly for the brass so I could do load development. I fired 3 rounds to get on paper then fired a 5-shot one ragged hole .33 group. Followed that up with 3 more half to sub-half MOA groups. My load development was finished before I started.
I was able to duplicate the load easily with Varget and the boy shot it well at the range.
The ELDM is an excellent bullet for deer and he's taken deer, hogs, and varmints with it.

I had to get one for myself and bought the heavy barrel Savage Switchback for a new benchrest match coming up in June. I expected the same result, but it won't shoot factory eldms worth a hoot (2" at 100). I was able to get a little better reloading with Varget but was getting wild Flyers. I switched to 105 Berger hybirds… way better but flyers. 109 Berger's nope. Now I've got almost 500 rounds through this rifle and I about ready to chuck it. I decided to give it one last chance with a non-hybrid Berger. I picked up a couple box of 108 Berger target…bingo! easy button. 27.0 to 27.8gr ladder in .2gr increments all 5 groups were sub half MOA with an ES of 3. It shoots plenty good enough to win, as long as I can read the wind.

 

[manitou]

For me the bullet has had more impact than powder, providing you use the correct burn rate for the cartridge.

 

[MagnumManiac]

A simple fact about bullets like the ABLR is that they are sensitive to seating depth, you HAVE to test seating depth or you will never tune them with powder alone. There are several bullets like this on the market these days.

Cheers.

 

[338 dude]

My most recent build or rebuild of my 65 284 will not shoot Hornady bullets no matter what I tried,

the only difference between these two targets is a change of bullets

 

[William W.]

A simple fact about bullets like the ABLR is that they are sensitive to seating depth, you HAVE to test seating depth or you will never tune them with powder alone. There are several bullets like this on the market these days.

Cheers.

Seating depth for rounds that should fit in a magazine seems to be a contradiction?

 

[Old Rooster]

Back in the late 70's I got a Remington 700 243 cheap because it would not print a good group with factory ammo.
Like others I only had a couple different powders and started with Imr 4350 and at 42 grs and a little longer than book OAL that rifle shot 85 gr Nosler Partitions 1/2 inch group at 100 yards.Yep a certain bullet and a bit longer OAL fixed that rifle.

 

[cohunt]

Seating depth for rounds that should fit in a magazine seems to be a contradiction?

Seating depth still makes a difference and can be changed regardless of mag length (though you will hit a max length depending on your mag)

Some bullet designs are very sensitive to seating depth, others- not so much.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Seating depth for rounds that should fit in a magazine seems to be a contradiction?

Why? You don't have to touch the lands and work backwards…load to max mag length and work backwards from there, no contradictions doing that.
There many sweet spots in seating depth, not just one.

Cheers.

 

[Wolf76]

I agree with what you wrote. The ablr and Barnes have been finicky bullets for me. This is why I start with seating depth first. When there is no discernable difference (group size) in seating depths, it means the bullet or powder will never work....most often its the bullet.

 

[birddog 68]

Why? You don't have to touch the lands and work backwards…load to max mag length and work backwards from there, no contradictions doing that.
There many sweet spots in seating depth, not just one.

Cheers.

I did this with my browning x bolt and Hornady interbond. Was getting groups in the 1.5" range until I seated them .050 deeper and it shrank the groups in half.

 

[Calvin45]

It is for this exact reason that I recommend new reloaders cut their teeth on plain vanilla flat base soft points haha, and I'm partial to
The hornady interlock. The "keep it simple stupid, KISS" policy applies.

Reason being there's not too many guns that HATE a flat base cup and core of middle of the road weight at 100 yards and it makes for a good control (and not so dang expensive for people in the rookie phase)

take a flat base interlock, load to standard coal, find a powder (and for the control I prefer the oldschool single base IMR and Hodgdon powders) that allows for 100 percent case fill or close to it, load a grain under book max (you should start lower and work up of course, I admittedly have not always done so) and see what it does.

There will be room for improvement probably, tighter accuracy and hotter velocity will be possible almost certainly. But if your gun HATES this kind of "control load" my experience says good luck finding a load it likes. Flat base interlocks are the chicken fingers of the bullet world: even the pickiest eating rifles usually like them!

Same goes for hammers and Nosler ballistic tips but those are in a whole other universe of expense and no I wouldn't suggest "learning the ropes" to a new loader with those haha

 

[Calvin45]

I did this with my browning x bolt and Hornady interbond. Was getting groups in the 1.5" range until I seated them .050 deeper and it shrank the groups in half.

I figured out a while ago that, out of hunting rifles and bullets marketed as "hunting bullets" anyway, a little jump is almost always better than touching the lands

 

[biednick]

ABLR bullets have a tangent ogive. It gives them a higher BC, but makes them very sensitive to seating depth.

This is my process for loading tangent ogive bullets.

0. Decide what I consider acceptable precision for the gun I'm loading for. I'm looking for a load that meets or exceeds that level of precision, not the best load possible. For a hunting gun that's going to be dependant on the range I want to hunt and the size of the game I'm hunting. Be realistic here. Your 7lb 300 Win Mag isn't going to be a .5 MOA gun, and it doesn't need to be for hunting.

1. Load up 5 rounds each at mag length or .010 off the lands, -.040, -.080, and -.120. Shoot those into 4 groups.

2. Evaluate the groups, and select any that are smaller than what you consider acceptable. Usually I find 1, but sometimes 2.

3. Load up 10 rounds at the lengths you selected in step 2, +.010, and -.010. Shoot all those into seperate groups.

4. Pick the best, shoot a couple more 10 shot groups at that length to verify, and stop if you meet your goal.

5. If the groups from step 4 are unacceptable, repeat step 4 with the next largest group from step 3. Repeat this step until a good load is found, you're out of groups to test, or the smallest group is larger than your goal. If you don't find a good load start over with new components.

It takes about 70 rounds to dial it in. I very rarely find more than 1 acceptable group in step 2 and very rarely have to repeat step 4.

It's important to make sure you evaluate groups based on a statistically significant sample, which is why I use 5 shot groups to discard bad loads, 10 shot groups to select potentially good loads, and multiple 10 shot groups for verification. It's tedious to shoot 30 cold bore shots when dialing in a hunting rifle, but it's necessary if you want a true measure of precision. Your 10 shot groups will almost definitely be larger than your 3 or 5 shot groups, which is exactly why you can't evaluate precision based on a 5 shot group.

I use a similar method for hybrid bullets, but use .015" steps in step 1 and don't test multiple lengths in step 3. Hybrids are less sensitive to seating depth, so it's generally not necessary to test as many seating depths or test over as wide of a range.