How much magnification is too much?

MOA

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I am putting together a sendero in 25-06. I have a Leupold 8.5-25 LR in my safe that I planned on putting on a Varminting AR. The 25-06 will be used as my long range varmint rig, is the high mag Leupold overkill for this cartridge (25-06)? I was thinking of the 6.5-20 for it but now I'm having second thoughts. Do you guys generally prefer the 8.5-25's over the 6.5-20 30mm Leupolds? Id the field of view is adequate at 8.5x I see no reason to buy the 6.5-20 anymore, am I right?
 

Mysticplayer

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Jul 27, 2001
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Mirage and conditions will determine the max mag you can use for any given situation. It is nice to have the extra mag but not necessary. I have a B&L 6X24 on my hunting 30 Gibbs but will probably only use up to 16X. Field of view gets too small. However, for accuracy and plinking, it is nice to get that extra mag.

You may be surprised at how far you can engage a target at 10X. For hunting, field of view is very important.

Jerry
 

jcpython357

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MOA, What I've noticed on a hot day is the higher mag. your using the mirage just gets worse, probably knew that, huh. I go back to what snipers use, good ol' 10x for that reason. On my 6mm Rem.(coyote/sniper rifle) I have a Burris Sig. 4-16 w/ballistic mil-dot, which subtends 1.7"@1000yds on 16x, now you look at how big a coyote is and he's alot bigger than 1.7", what I'm saying is you really don't need to go any higher than that. Oh, Save your money and get a Burris over that Leupold(good scope though), buddies got an LRT and I thought my Burris was optically superior(I can explain why it is if you want) and 400 bucks less. Just an observation. Good luck. J


[ 03-12-2003: Message edited by: Jay Gorski ]
 

milanuk

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
Oh, Save your money and get a Burris over that Leupold(good scope though), buddies got an LRT and I thought my Burris was optically superior(I can explain why it is if you want) and 400 bucks less. Just an observation.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok. I'll bite on this one, as I'm riding the fence currently btwn the Burris (what I want to spend), the Leupold (what I can get away w/ spending), and the NightForce (what I'd get if $$$ wasn't an issue).

I've used Leupold Vari-X III LR/T scopes, both 8.5-25x and 6.5-20x, and my eyeballs didn't always agree w/ the scopes, or vice versa.

What I wonder is how you recommend the Burris as a Long Range scope, when it appears to have a *very* small amount of adjustment available in the scope, which I thought was kind of necessary for precision shooting at extended ranges. Do you use canted bases, or Burris Signature rings, or have the Ballistic Plex style of reticle to make up for this?

Thanks,

Monte
 

jcpython357

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Monte, It's me, jcpython357 that you got that quote from,(I've got 2 e-mail addresses), as you know we talked about this in our own e-mails, I do have Bmil-dot in my 4-16 Sig, and my son has one in his 6-24 on his VS-SF 22-250, If I ever get a chance to shoot out to a 1000yds, I'll zero my rifle @400yds on the center cross hair and where the thick meets the thin cross hair will be my 1000yd zero, thats what you have to do when you buy a Burris, sacrafice elev. for optical quality, not a problem.
 

Mysticplayer

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Jay, with the Burris you can have both- elevation and optical quality.

Almost every 1" scope on the market has 40 to 60min of elevation adjustment. This is more then enough to get out to 1000yds with a 100yd zero. Even something like the 308 only needs about 40 to 45min to make the trip. The flat shooters that we are most likely to use, will need 18 to 30 min.

All you need to do is shim the bases and/or use the Burris Sig rings with offset inserts. With these, you just adjust your scope so that your 100yd or other "close range" zero is at full "down" elevation. You now have the rest of the travel for further ranges.

This is how I got my B&L 4000 scope to work out to 1000yds with my 300wby. This scope is only blessed with 25min of elevation adjustment. The lowest in the industry. However, the optics are some of the best. I now have the best of both worlds without spending a fortune.

Optical quality is much more important then a few extra min of adjustment. You can always shim your scope. Lousy optics are just...lousy optics.

Jerry
 

jcpython357

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Jerry, I know you can do the shimming and Signature ring route, I was just thinking of the best route(easiest,fastest)to go with, Bmil-dot, the only thing is(for pecision shooting) that reticle is a tiny bit thicker than a Burris fine plex. Jay
 

milanuk

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Jerry,

Jay isn't the one we're trying to convince here... it's me. I've lost track of what I've said to who in which email/post where, but basically I'm interested in the Burris scopes, because I've heard such great things about their optical quality, and have been less than 100% satisfied w/ some other brands/models I've used for the $$$.


I just have a hard time convincing myself to get a scope that I *have* to dink around w/ canted bases and rings w/ shimmed inserts to get the thing to 'reach' out as far as I might want to go, and still maintain a reasonable closer range zero (say, 200yds). I'm looking really hard at getting one anyway, so I can see what they look like thru my eyes.

Jay, does the 4-16x50mm BD have target style turrets? Doesn't appear to from the images on the web page. I don't suppose they have lower profile target turrets under those little caps by chance?

Also, for anyone who knows, how many minutes per revolution do the Burris target turrets have? The Sightron I'm using currently has 1/8 minute clicks (reality is more like 0.150) and 7.5 minutes per revolution, which is not real handy for counting minutes when you get off by a half a minute or so.

Monte

[ 03-13-2003: Message edited by: milanuk ]
 

jcpython357

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Mar 12, 2003
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Monte, The 4-16 BD doesn't come with target turrets, but you can send the scope in to have them put on for $80.00, I don't know without calling Burris, but my 6-24 Sig. w/target turrets has 84 clicks per rev. @1/8" per click, Give Larry or Gordon a call, 1-888-228-7747. J
 

4mesh063

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Dec 8, 2002
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Milanuk,

In the Signature series I would be skeptical to tell you to go buy one for 1000 yds. I have Sig's and Bdiamonds in 32x and the BD works fine for target shooting at 1K. The sig will not cut it for me (in the 8-32). Your 4-16 will have tons more elevation.

Next, It's not that you want all that elevation like the leupold has because you need the gun to reach out, it's because if you don't get your reticle pinned to one extreme of travel, the image is clearer. If your reticle is centered where you target shoot, your image is at it's best. I have my 8-32BD with 37m of elevation zeroed at 320yds or so in order to have the turrets relatively centered when I target shoot. If Im hunting, I don't have the option of telling the game where to stand so I'm off a little. My relatively slow 30cal will theoretically get out to 16/1700 if I use all the clicks. My sig that gets adjusted to its limits regularly has about 4.5 rev's of elevation (the turret turns about 5.5 but the crosshairs move for about 4.5 of em) and the BD has more than 7 revs if I remember right. The scopes repeat great. My swift has never been rezeroed in it's life. (It's Ported and has little recoil) I like mine a lot.

In any case, they all have 8min/rev unless they make something new I'm not aware of.
 

milanuk

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Wenatchee, WA
Hmmm... 8 minutes per revolution. I can work w/ that. The goofy 7.5 on my Sightron just doesn't make it easy to keep track of where a person is when going from one yardage to another.

Monte
 

jcpython357

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Mar 12, 2003
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Schofield, WI.
Mesh, I stand corrected, while I thought there was 10 clicks between the numbers, there's only 8, 8x8 is 64, plus there's 4 clicks after the 8, so that would be 68, or no. Geez, I hope I'm right this time.
 

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