High velocities with 6mm target bullets for varmints.

[slv hunter]

I shoot nosler 70g bt at 3670fps 26" 1:8 twist out of my 6mm ai. They blow stuff up. I shot a coyote in the neck trying to hide behind a bush at 150yds, there was about a 3/4" piece of skin holding his head on. Devastating on P dogs

 

[Capt RB]

My dad's 6rem ai runs the 85/87 class of bullets (12tw) very well. coyotes don't like that rifle one bit. I also run those bullets along with the 70blitz and the old 75v-max hollowpoint. My 243ai shot sub 2" @ 500 and also shot my longest song dog at 540 running across a frozen lake. I tried the 70smk one time shot 3 coyotes didn't find 2 shot the one we did find 3 times. Have not had one get away from an 87 v max or go further than a few steps. Most are spectacular and very violent with lots of red mist

 

[357Mag]

Hello, MY .244 had just been ungraded with some work by a gunsmith so that its accuracy limitation are now primarily me, now. This Hart 1-12 barrel has always been faster than the norm when chronographed, and seems to lighter 6mm bullets. Wind here in the Rockies precludes the super light 6mm at longer distances. I have accumulated 63-67 gr. benchrest bullets used in 6PPC competitions. I know these bullets are pushed as fast as the shooters can achieve with the 6PPC case. I am wondering if anyone else has used them at much higher velocities, such as a .244 case can achieve. If they can retain that excellent accuracy at much higher velocity, that would be excellent, but I simply do not want to waste their excellent potential accuracy by pushing them beyond their practical limits. Bullets in this barrel so well just to 80 grains.

Thanks,

WW

WW -

Howdy !

As a groundhog shooter from NE Indiana, I utilized a high vel .224" cal wildcat ( .35 Remington necked down to .224" cal ) for my initial 3+ decades; after shooting .22-250s. I started out shooting 1-14 barrel and Hornady 55SX, and only varied from that bullet choice when going for a 500+ yd kill, for which I used a prototype of Hornady's 55"V"-Max ( from a small clutch Steve HOrnady had sent me ).

I ran a 28" 1-8 iteration of my .22-35 for a few years, shooting the
75"A"-Max exclusively. When I developed trouble seeing .224" cal holes on paper @ 300yd ( when using a 2X-boosted T-36 ), I decided to switch to shooting a 6mm wildcat of my own design.

6mm:
A lot of what you are talking about is influenced by the weather & altitude conditions where you are shooting. And moreover.......
whether the rifle you have at-hand will cover all engagement distances you are likely to encounter ?

I had witnessed my best friend's fast-twist 6mm AI not getting bullets out to even 400yd consistently, with a rifle / ammo combo that should have been good for 700yd.

Since NE Indiana groundhog shooting weather is predominantly not
" windy " ( IMHO ), I set my 6mm rifle up to be usable for either varmint or target work out to 1,000yd ( or even a tad more ). The barrel is a 29" SS Broughton 1-8 5-groove. I started out shooting 105 -107gr
Berger and Sierra VLDs, but didn't feel I really needed all that bullet wt, and converted to shooting Sierra 6mm 95MKs.

These worked quite well, but that didn't stop me from progressing to use of their 95T-MK, once those became available.

For me and my shooting circumstances, the 95s have covered all the bases. Things like "shoot through " and " crawlers " have not been a factor. While I have not as yet shot a " Soybeanus Digestus " @ 1,000,
I have every confidence my " DEEP 6 " wildcat & my rifle can get the job done.... long as I do my part.

My point:
The lighter 6mm bullets might impose some range limitations per se.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[CubCouper]

I grew up shooting 6's (a 244 and a 6mm Rem) and I've been an ardent BR competitor/'smith for many years... the key is the twist rate.

Twist 13-15 <70gr bullets
Twist 11-13 <90gr bullets
Twist 9-10 up to 100gr
Twist <9 up to 110.
Of course the case capacity needs to be there make it work. A 8 twist 243 will drive a 110gr, where an 8 twist 6BR just doesn't quite have enough room in the boiler.


Most PPC shooters are running twist rates of 13.5 to 14.25 to get max accuracy out of the 63-68gr BR target bullets. Every so often a BR competitor tries a 12 twist PPC or 6BR in an attempt to run 70-90gr bullets in strong wind but the results just don't out-compete the slower twist PPCs with the light bullets.

My Dad's old .244 had the original 12 twist Remington barrel and shoots 87gr class bullets like a laser. It's always been partial to the old Hornady 87 BTHP Match bullets and has killed coyotes, deer, antelope, and several elk over 70+ years. But it won't shoot a 100gr bullet. My first rifle (50+years ago) was a 6mm Rem with the faster (9.75?) twist and it never quite shot as well as the 244, but it would shoot the 100gr pills.

After dabbling in Long Range Benchrest (600/1000) competition, I landed on running a couple 8 twist 6mm Dasher variants for my long range 6's for varmints and mid-sized game. They'll push the 105-107 class Bergers and Sierras at 3100 on about 2/3 the powder of the 243/6mmRem and shoot consistently less than 1/4-1/2MOA (1.5-3") at 600 yards off a good rest.

 

[wildcat westerner]

Hello and thank you all for this excellent information. After spending six days on the Chihuahua desert when hunting Barbary sheep and seeing nothing but a few mule deer and a single jack rabbit, and in talking with other hunters during that period in which no one had a shot, it s a pleasure to congratulate you on your successful Barbary sheep hunt. The accuracy of your short barreled .243 is truly impressive to me, especially at that distance.

We have returned from Whittington where it was a pleasure to have the Coors range with its 75 benches and reloading building and the 1,000 yard range all to ourselves for three days. This is what I discovered with my 6mm rifles. The custom .244 (1-12) Hart still runs faster velocities than indicated in reloading books. It shot the light PPC (63-67) bullets well, but the 70's much better. I decided to back off to the velocities a PPC case is capable of,and use Varget, and the accuracy potential was so obviously increased that we managed to shoot a single hole group (63 gr.) with two different shooters behind the rifle. My Savage LRP in 243 really surprised me. As bad as a rifle could be, when bought used, the weapon was returned to the factory. It returned with a 3/4 page letter describing all the things that were done to it, free with shipping, by the factory. I shot it and fitted a Northland Supply 26 in heavy barrel to it, and we tested it for the first time at Whittington. After owning a lot of Kriegers and Bartleins used in competitions for decades, I am astounded with the accuracy of this barrel. I have a lot of 88 gr. Berger flat based bullets and wish to use them in this rifle, due to the winds here at 6,500+ feet in the Rockies. On this rifle it also amazed me , directly comparing to my two NightForce scopes, how clear and precise the new Vortex scope was with its precise aiming reticle, on this rifle.

So, I now have two rifles to use for Prairie dogs, one for shorter range, and we shall find out how those 88's will work at longer ranges.

The absolutely excellent input from all of you has been very positive. I had two "bad" varmint rifles before they were "regunsmithed", now its going to be a pleasure to find out what they are really capable of accomplishing this coming Spring and Summer. A fellow experienced rifleman in the area only uses his 6.5 x284 for varmint hunting due to the winds in this area.

 

[bear41]

Hello, MY .244 had just been ungraded with some work by a gunsmith so that its accuracy limitation are now primarily me, now. This Hart 1-12 barrel has always been faster than the norm when chronographed, and seems to lighter 6mm bullets. Wind here in the Rockies precludes the super light 6mm at longer distances. I have accumulated 63-67 gr. benchrest bullets used in 6PPC competitions. I know these bullets are pushed as fast as the shooters can achieve with the 6PPC case. I am wondering if anyone else has used them at much higher velocities, such as a .244 case can achieve. If they can retain that excellent accuracy at much higher velocity, that would be excellent, but I simply do not want to waste their excellent potential accuracy by pushing them beyond their practical limits. Bullets in this barrel so well just to 80 grains.

Thanks,

WW

Wrote the paragraph below before seeing the notes from the benchrest shooter above very informative post by him.

My brother has shot benchrest heads out of his 243 Akley Improved and they held up with good accuracy. I don't recall his barrel twist. Most PPC guns are 1 in 13. I will give you a word of caution both he and I set up 25-06s to shot Pdogs near sea level we were pushing 75gr Vmax at just under 4000 fps with N140 powder. When we got to WY to shoot about 1/3 of his round air burst before getting to the dogs. Mine were ok. We were shooting barrels with 1 in 10 twist. I am guessing you are ok with 1 in 12 twist but velocity and higher twist rates (lower number) in his case caused the bullets to air burst. Best of luck with your tuned up gun.

 

[300 Weatherby Mag]

My 6mm Rem. is a 1-10 twist. I have had the best results with H-4350 powder with these bullets:

- 65 grain Vmax @ 3600 FPS
- 69 grain Berger BCFB @ 3420 FPS
- 95 grain Hornady SST @ 3125 FPS
- 95 grain Berger Classic Hunter @ 3110 FPS

All loads have been very accurate for a sporter weight rifle with groups of 1/2" or less if I do my part.
Ha ha - I didn't notice the date of this post.

 

[30378wbymag]

Anyone try the StaBall 6.5 in their 6mm Remmy or the .243?? Looking at Hodgdons data it looks promising, I picked up a pound to try in my .243, just waiting for a little warmer temps --- don't like wearing gloves to reload

 

[newmexkid]

Call me late to the party. I have used a 243 for many years and just lately was advised to use WIN 760. Tried it and I'm all giggles and smiles. Really shining in my 243AI with 70 gr. bullets.

 

[30378wbymag]

check out the StaBall 6.5 for the 243, Hodgdons site has it over 150 fps above 760.... Now how accurate is it? Temp stable supposed to be, we'll see!!!

 

[detoff]

I've used 6.5 Staball in my 6rem and the 87gr vmax. it worked ok, but didn't get the accuracy out the vmax I was getting out of the 80gr berger varmint. I was trying the vmax becasuse I haven't been able to find the berger varmints for quite awhile. For my 243 my favorite has been the 70gr TNT with varget. As to the lightweight bullets, I haven't tried them in either of those rifles, but I've got some to play with in my 6arc. For what it's worth... I emailed Berger a couple weeks ago and asked them about the performance on varmints with their light 6mm match bullets since I can't find the 80s or 88s. They replied that the lightweights should be great for varmints and use the thinner J4 jackets. I've been eyeing the 64gr column bullets, 65gr boat tails, and the 68gr fb target since they seem to be available. Just haven't had the time to pick any up and do some loading.

 

[30378wbymag]

detof, I'm in the same boat, looking for the 75gr. Vmax ,my .243 shoots em lights out. I'm in search of lg rifle primers at the moment. We need it to warm up just a few degrees so I can get out in the garage and reload...
Supposed to get snow tomorrow and a good size storm next week...

 

[JSHKS]

I tried some Speer HP's in my 6CM with 1-7.5 twist, they didn't make it 100 yards, to much rpm. Have some ready with 87 grain Vmax.
I like RPM, I am of the thought it helps with "lift" and "splat" factor on prairie dogs.

 

[Xjetmech]

I've had a 6mm Rem. built on a '96 Mauser, with a Douglas standard weight barrel, for 40+ yrs. The barrel came off a light BR rifle, chambered in 6mm Donaldson International, if I remember right. It likes the Hornady 87gr bullets the best. Using 4895, or 4831 powders, with Rem. 91/2 primers, the best accuracy, {nickels at 100yrds}, comes at about 2800 fps. I've tried lighter weights, and got higher speeds, but accuracy went out the window! I've wanted to rechamber to 6mm AI, so I can use a heavier bullet.