HELP WITH SATERLEE VELOCITY TEST

I've achieved several great loads using the Satterlee test. I do .5 increments then explore flat spots further with .2 increments. Most flat spots produce good loads. Some don't. Just gotta find what your rifle likes with each particular bullet, powder, etc. combination. I'm currently trying a more accuracy based OCW test right now. Just got my scope back so I'll continue with that test and see how it compares. Plenty of people have said the Satterlee test is a waste of time but my .5 moa 338 RUM with an ES of 6 would disagree
 
I agree with Shep (and others), have found the Satterlee method very helpful. Helped me narrow down a 30-06 load when I had been going in circles. Also drilled down to a load fast with my 6.5CM. I will continue to use it to narrow down then fine tune with groups at distance.
 
rgmeddn said:
As a science guy I like the idea of applying statistical tools to all of this. Do you have the statistics expertise to take it further? (I don't but would understand the result!) Statistically how many ACTUAL shooting ladders or tests with how many rounds at each charge would it take to validate (or not) your assumption/conclusion that it is all random statistical noise without actual nodes say to the 95% confidence level? Then the phrase "IMO" becomes N/A.
Click to expand...
rgmeddn said:
As a science guy I like the idea of applying statistical tools to all of this. Do you have the statistics expertise to take it further? (I don't but would understand the result!) Statistically how many ACTUAL shooting ladders or tests with how many rounds at each charge would it take to validate (or not) your assumption/conclusion that it is all random statistical noise without actual nodes say to the 95% confidence level? Then the phrase "IMO" becomes N/A.
Click to expand...
 
The question might be: how many charge increments does it take to define a "node"? Is it 4, 5, or more? I confess to being a rather mediocre student of statistics, but I'm thinking we'd use a Students T distribution, and for a 95% confidence level, wouldn't you need to fire 20 shots?
 
Opa_Lopa I asked you straight question about your data. Real to withstand statistical scrutiny or simulated?
 
I use this test with velocity and then accuracy within the "perceived" node. If nothing else it gives me a logical starting point to narrow my load. Whether an anomaly or not, it has started me down the road to some very "accurate" loads. Luckily I just hunt and plink and only really shoot to 600 so for me ignorance is bliss. If I can stay within 5" at 500 mission accomplished and the ladder test helps me get there. I always like to have an idea where max is in a load so I shoot the ladder anyway.
 
I shoot 1000 yard BR and hunt and I always start with the Satterlee test first. I have compared my results with ladder test on target and find most of the time both test tell me the same thing. A good solid starting powder charge that tunes easily. Like quintus said if your going to find your max load for any given combo you might as well do the satterlee test at the same time. I personally have never found a false node. And almost without fail the upper half of the node is always more accurate and has lower sd and es. I find the exact same thing with my ladder test.
Shep
 
asd9055 said:
NW Hunter,
If I went strictly by Satterllee as I understand it, I see three possible nodes. One around 50.7, one around 52.7 and one around 54.1. Being me, I would pick 54.1 and continue following Satterlee steps, without the magneto. Once I settled on load I would play with seating depth to see if I can improve. Again, I am just learning, and for sure I will draw a lot of remarks, but I have thick skin. Also, if you are comfortable at 300 yards, I would work with that. Ot 52.7

Good Shooting!!!
ASD
Click to expand...
54.1 is on my radar for sure
 
Bdubose said:
My understanding is that the purpose of the Satterlee is to locate a velocity at which one can achieve the lowest ES/SD loads.
I used to begin all my load workups with the Satterlee and found one very important factor:
You can find an excellent velocity node inside a bad harmonic (speed) which makes the load worthless.

Now I do some research on barrel harmonics, and begin my Satterlee test a bit before and after that speed to find the best of both worlds - the flattest velocity node inside the optimum harmonic. If I have to settle for low double digits in ES to keep the load inside the best harmonic range - so be it. FYI: I'm developing for hunting, not Bench Rest.
Click to expand...
Same here Bdubose,
Thanks for your input.
 
JASmith said:
Excellent observation!

That is why one should pick the ponts on the "flat spots" and repeat once or twice. You will likely have a valid node if it repeats a couple of times.

Same for the accuracy tests.

If one's principal range is limited to 100 yards, then choose the 2-3 loads giving best accuracy there and run velocity tests of at least 5 shots for each load. The lowest SD gives one a reasonable change at being accurate at longer range.

Again, repeating the test series helps rule out random noise when looking for the underlying signal.
Click to expand...
Thanks JASmith,
I've got three velocity nodes reloaded with 5 each for my next round.
 
redneckdan said:
To the OP.

I use a Satterlee type method as well. I dont always get the most accurate load. I do get loads that hold up well across wide ranging conditions, even with that evil ball powder stuff.

First I run a basic test like you have. I pick out a high node for hunting loads and a lower node for high volume practice. I load a test of each node in .1gr steps 5rds each step and shoot for velocity. These velocities are graphed and the data analyzed. Within that node there is usually a sweet spot. Fine bullet tune might tweak the accuracy a bit more.

I have a load for a savage desert tactical 6 creedmoor with ramshot magnum and the DTAC that shoots with an SD of 4. Off bags it groups around .75" @ 100yds and around 3" @ 600. Why it does better at distance, I don't know. But it has been my experience that loads developed this way dont always do well on the short course but seem to hold together better at range and across changing conditions. And that is what I am after.

I have a load for a savage 12FV with the 69 SMK and 4064 that i developed before i had a chrono and was using the paper target @ 300 and look for clusters method. It always shot really good except in the summer. I finally threw a chrono on it and on a good summer day it has an SD above 50. Once temps get above 80F, it goes nuts. It gets worse with range and higher temps. Both groups are 5 shots. Temps noted. I show this as an example of a reasonably accurate load that is useless to me.
Click to expand...
Hey Redneckdan,
You say you reload the high load for hunting.
That's my goal too. How many loads at .1 grain difference do you load above and below your high node?
 

Similar threads

S
Help with velocity variance
2
Replies
17
Views
5K
Loner
L
haftime
velocity or grouping with a ladder test
2
Replies
14
Views
3K
aschler
A
Mc Fraser
Help with ladder test
2 3
Replies
37
Views
9K
nt7332
nt7332
B
Help with OCW test
2 3
Replies
33
Views
4K
WildRose
WildRose
brguide
Help with OCW test
2
Replies
16
Views
4K
dsculley
D

Recent Posts

Top