Help with my 300 win mag

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by revaeb, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. revaeb

    revaeb Member

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    I have an older weatherby vanguard 300 win mag. I am trying to set it up for long range coues deer hunting (900-100) yards. I also want to use it for elk. I have been torn between the 168gr., and the 175,180,185 categories. Does anyone have any experience reloading this caliber, and have any help and maybe a good bullet recipe for me? Thanks, in advance
     
  2. revaeb

    revaeb Member

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    I forgot to mention, I would like the muzzle velocity to be above 3000 fps so i can get the bullet expansion that I need for a good clean kill at that distance. Im looking at the Berger hunting or nosler ballistic tip but am open to suggestions. Thanks again
     
  3. jayran

    jayran Well-Known Member

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    Try both bergers and accubonds both should shoot well, I dont have a 300 win mag so i dont have any recipes. Retumbo should be a good powder to start with.
     
  4. Oliveralan

    Oliveralan Well-Known Member

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    Retumbo, H1000, and RL22 are all good performers in the 300wm. I think you would be better off with a heavier bullet. If you can stabilize it go with a 210 VLD or such. At 900 too 1000yrds BC is a LOT more important and a little fps. Simply because at that range your loosing a measureable amount of fps per yard traveled, by walked 25yards closer to the target you will have probably made up most of the lost fps of a 180 vs a 210 and the bullet will have retained a lot of energy.

    At over 600yards, BC>velocity (within reason of course)

    Well at least that's my opinion, take it for what it is.

    BTW, if you can really reliably hit coues deer sized vitals shot after shot at 900 to 1000 yards in field conditions, my hat is off to you sir, your a far better shot than me.

    -Oliver
     
  5. revaeb

    revaeb Member

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    Thanks oliver,

    Good info on the heavier bullet, I have heard that about the 210gr with the 7mm, but hadnt heard the same with the 300wm.

    I agree, its gonna be tough to hit the vitals at 1000 yards. I got one 2 years ago at 450 with my 243wssm with the a 6-18 nikion bdc scope. Its a great scope, but the circles would be a huge field at 900 yards, and the 243 wssm drops like a brick out that far. I have seen some pretty big bucks out at about 800-900 yards, that were impossible to close the distance on. I am trying to set up the 300 win mag with the same scope but with fine crosshairs and target turrets. I feel if I can get the group to shoot sub moa at 100 yards, I should be ok or close at 900. Weve lobbed hail mairys at em that far before but couldnt hit em. They diddnt even move, so i figure if i am a little off on the wind, i have a shot or two to compensate.

    I think Ill load up some Bergers at 185gr and the 210s and see what i can shoot the better group with I think with the Bergers, I will be ok with slower speeds if it comes down to it too. They are suppossedly supposed to expand really well at all speeds. Generally I try to stick to the "i need to be above 1000fps" rule to get optimum expansion out of the bullet. Anyone have any ideas or info on that?
     
  6. Oliveralan

    Oliveralan Well-Known Member

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    Testing at 100yards for a load you plan to shoot animals with 6" vitals at 900yrds is bad. Go put some paper plates at 900 yards, if you can wack them 9/10 shots in the flat center part, your good to go on coues deer at that distance. Otherwise, it's seriously not a good idea just to take pot shots at them at that kind of range.

    Hitting the vitals at 450 yards cold bore is a very good shot, but now doubling that distance.... i would really watch out.

    You said if you miss you'll just adjust for wind, well what if the wind blow the bullet back into the guts and you tear them apart? then you've just wounded a buck that will most definetely not stay around and run off to die a horrid death.

    Sub MOA at 100 should be good enough for 6" vitals at 900yards? im sorry but im not catching on this logic. shoot half moa after half moa at 300 yards and maybe you'll have a chance at making a good shot, also have to account for a lot of stuff that screws with your bullet once you shoot that far (dont feel like listing all the factors...) same reason a .25moa gun at 100 is never, or extremely rarely a .25moa gun at 1000 (except on the internet :D).

    I think you should practice and study a bit more before you attempt to shoot a coues at that kind of range, but that's just my opinion from what you've said so far. There are only a handful of people on this site who can make shots like that, and they use thousands of dollars worth of equipment, practice almost daily, and have intimate understanding of how their rifle and load is effected by wind, temperature, pressure, cold bore vs fouled/hot bore etc...


    Hope this helps,
    Oliver
     
  7. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    +1 with the practice, practice, practice. It is vital to practice hitting your target of intention at the distance of intention. We set up a steel plate at distances we plan to shoot at.

    I own a 300WSM so it is not that much under what the 300WM will do. On the bright side, it will push the big bullets a little better. You should try some Hornady 208 A-max's and a 210 grain of some type. No less than 200grn for that kind of distance. If you can get it to speeds of 2900 to 2950 you can be effective on deer size game to 1200yrds. Again I emphasize the need to practice, practice, practice at the distances to be sure of your loads, and your wind doping for that distance. You may want to try Reloader 17 and H4350. Those are very effective for the WSM's. I am going to venture into Accurate Mag Pro this next time around.

    Tank
     
  8. revaeb

    revaeb Member

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    I don't plan on sighting in at 100 yards then going out to kill a deer at 900. My undersanding of moa is that if I am under 1" groups at 100 yards then I am shooting sub moa. 2" at 200 3" at 300 etc. Which would put me at a 9" group at 900 yards(in a perfect world). Am I understanding correctly? I just want to see what me and the rifle will do at 100 yards and then move up to 900 yards. I plan on shooting a lot before I just head out to the hills. I knew the story about lobbing the hail mary shots would get you grumpy. Its not something I have a habit of doing. I'm not looking for a 900 yard shot, but would like to have confidence that if the right shot with the right situation presented itself, I could make it. I would much rather stalk up on it to 400 or 500 yards, but that doesn't always work in the superstition mountains in arizona where I hunt. Its hard to gauge antler size at that distance anyway, it was hard at 450!

    I enjoy long distance target shooting, and love hunting. Don't get me wrong. I am not going to take a shot that I don't think I can make. The 100 yards is just the starting point. Realisticly I probably won't be accurate enough to pull off more than a 600 yard shot, but I'd like to at least see.
     
  9. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a plan. An MOA is roughly an inch, but is a little bigger. I forget what the actual number is. Anyway, theoretically if under an inch it should follow suit to longer ranges. The thing that comes into play at long distance is velocity. If you have large spreads (ex. 80fps between slowest to fastest) you will have serious vertical stringing. You want to develop loads that are in the area of 0- 20fps for maximum effectiveness in accuracy.

    Tank
     
  10. Oliveralan

    Oliveralan Well-Known Member

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    Alright good, and it's not so much sight in distance, but 1moa at 100 yards translates into 2moa at 300 3moa at 300 in a perfect world as you say. But in the real world 1moa at 100 even with expert wind reading skills will be significantly bigger at 900 or 1000. Have you chronoed your load? Your going to need extremely low ES and SD to make a shot like that. 25-30fps even if you do everything right you can be high or low on a critter of that size. Just ran in in my ballistic calculator. A 210 VLD at 2900fps drops 210.6" at 900, a 210 VLD at 2930 drops 205.7" and that translates into a miss on a coues deer. I believe hitting one at 600 is a real achievement. 900 yards... I'd be a little uneasy. Not trying to be a party pooped but just show you what your dealing with here.

    If you can, shoot 200-300yard groups to see LR performance, 100yards isn't as good of a measure for LR performance. Good rule of thumb is what I said earlier with the paper plate. Once your have your dope for different ranges, go set up some paper plates randomly between 300-1000 yards and go back and forth shooting at them and recording hits and misses, then you'll have a good idea of how far you can shoot.I believe a coues deer's vitals are smaller than a paper plate however, that rule is usualy for whitetail.

    Good luck with your hunt! If you have any more questions I'll try to help just post here or pm me.

    -Oliver

    P.S. Sounds like you hunt a pretty awsome area, here in Va it's a real chore to find a spot to hunt LR.
     
  11. Oliveralan

    Oliveralan Well-Known Member

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    Liltank,
    we had the same idea, I just type slower :D
     
  12. roninflag

    roninflag Well-Known Member

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    i would not use an accubond on coues. i would use a 168 berger, 168 cbt; or a 165 baltip if you get drawn for bull elk use a 180 or one of the above