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Help with misfires please

w8n4rutnmt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
67
Gun is a savage 110 fcp in .338 Lapua

Using lapua brass, cci 250, H-1000

Last range session had 4 rounds not fire. Two loaded in new/unfired brass, two loaded in once fired brass. Primer had smaller "dimple" from firing pin than fired rounds do.

Primer seating depth is consistent across all rounds.

Firing pin issues??

Any ideas appreciated....Thanks
 
Did you ever Blank a primer? If you did you may have brass or debris inside of bolt. I don't like CCI primers because they are hard and give hangfires and no fires. I use federal 215 in my Lapua and never have a misfire with them. Matt
 
If I may also... (I'm no pro by any means lol) ... and somebody tell me if I've screwed up...

This was my cure for the same problem in a Savage Model 12 - 6x47 Lapua (Wolf primers) and a Savage Model 16 - 22-250 (CCI primers). Seems that Savage may be a common theme also...

I disassembled the bolt, cleaned and greased/lubed the firing pin etc... then I drilled the hole in the bolt-face to one "letter" sized drill bit larger than original.

For both these rifles it cured it. I was getting misfires at least once in every 10 rounds with both rifles. The model 16 now has +100 rounds since modification without a single misfire and the Model 12 has +50 rounds, no misfires.

My .02 :D

Not saying it's NOT a primer issue also...
 
If you get the hole bigger you will start to get cratering. Most guys send them to Gre-Tan rifles to get them bushed so they do away with the slop and cratered primers. I know a lot of people that have trouble with the Russian or CCI primers. They have thicker harder cups. When I tried them in my match guns I had trouble with hangfires and not going off. Some of them had fused powder in the bottom of the case. If it doesn't ignite right and goes out the barrel some and ignites it can turn into detonation. Very dangerous. I never had a Federal not go off ever. Matt
 
If you get the hole bigger you will start to get cratering. Most guys send them to Gre-Tan rifles to get them bushed so they do away with the slop and cratered primers. I know a lot of people that have trouble with the Russian or CCI primers. They have thicker harder cups. When I tried them in my match guns I had trouble with hangfires and not going off. Some of them had fused powder in the bottom of the case. If it doesn't ignite right and goes out the barrel some and ignites it can turn into detonation. Very dangerous. I never had a Federal not go off ever. Matt

Can you please tell me what clearance you think causes cratered primers?
I have several rifles with differing firing pin diameters and every one has a different amount of clearance, the ONLY rifles that crater primers are new manufacture Remingtons with the bevel in tge firing pin hole. The only other reason the primers crater is from a weak firing pin spring or HOT loads.
There are a couple of primers that crater due to soft cups, but they're pretty well known by most to avoid in high pressure rounds.
How does the powder go out the the barrel some and then detonate?
Powder, whether compressed or not, is consumed within a few inches of the throat, the only reason you got hangfires is because of bad powder choice and/or an insufficient load density with a slow burning powder, the primer has little to do with this unless you're shooting in sub zero temps.

To the OP, if your primers are seated high, the harder cup can absorb nearly all of the energy and all that happens is the primer is pushed deeper into the pocket, make sure ALL of your primers are .005" below flush.

Cheers.
gun)
 
... then I drilled the hole in the bolt-face to one "letter" sized drill bit larger than original.

Not a good idea. Better to have a properly size bushing installed.

OP ...
Disassemble the clean the living heck out of that bolt. I mean flush it out, wipe it out and flush it out again. Do a very careful interior inspection using a high intensity light source. Reassemble with light (very light) bolt grease and check it again.
I use CCI primers almost exclusively. Never had a problem with them in fifty plus years of shooting and reloading. I wouldn't blame the primers here.
 
Can you please tell me what clearance you think causes cratered primers?
I have several rifles with differing firing pin diameters and every one has a different amount of clearance, the ONLY rifles that crater primers are new manufacture Remingtons with the bevel in tge firing pin hole. The only other reason the primers crater is from a weak firing pin spring or HOT loads.
There are a couple of primers that crater due to soft cups, but they're pretty well known by most to avoid in high pressure rounds.
How does the powder go out the the barrel some and then detonate?
Powder, whether compressed or not, is consumed within a few inches of the throat, the only reason you got hangfires is because of bad powder choice and/or an insufficient load density with a slow burning powder, the primer has little to do with this unless you're shooting in sub zero temps.

To the OP, if your primers are seated high, the harder cup can absorb nearly all of the energy and all that happens is the primer is pushed deeper into the pocket, make sure ALL of your primers are .005" below flush.

Cheers.
gun)
You need to go to the benchrest forum or accurate shooter (6BR) and read about all the cratered primers. You are wrong it happens a lot with Savage and other guns as well. You also need to read about all the threads with primers not going off. They are always the Russian or CCI primers. You never read about Federals not going off. I have seen the fused powder where CCi primers have partially burnt the powder. We have 150 shooters every match shooting 17 to 20 shots and 10 matches a year plus shootoffs. I get to see a lot of cases being fired and see what primers always cause it . That s 30,000 shots a year plus shootoffs and World Open. In 14 years I have only ever seen one Federal primer not fire. You need to read up on secondary ignition or pressure spike. I seat my primers with a K&M and use .002 crush and my Bat actions will not set off CCI primers reliably. I have seen it with many guns. There is a thread on 6BR right now talking about primers not going off and having hangfires and is under Reloading Forum. The thread is about a 300 Ultra and Tula primers. Matt
 
Thanks for all the replies. I will break the bolt down and clean as suggested and try shooting again. I hope that will do it so I don't have to pull all the loaded rounds and start again with new primers. I use the same primers in two different .300 win mags and have never had a problem.
Thanks again
 
You need to go to the benchrest forum or accurate shooter (6BR) and read about all the cratered primers. You are wrong it happens a lot with Savage and other guns as well. You also need to read about all the threads with primers not going off. They are always the Russian or CCI primers. You never read about Federals not going off. I have seen the fused powder where CCi primers have partially burnt the powder. We have 150 shooters every match shooting 17 to 20 shots and 10 matches a year plus shootoffs. I get to see a lot of cases being fired and see what primers always cause it . That s 30,000 shots a year plus shootoffs and World Open. In 14 years I have only ever seen one Federal primer not fire. You need to read up on secondary ignition or pressure spike. I seat my primers with a K&M and use .002 crush and my Bat actions will not set off CCI primers reliably. I have seen it with many guns. There is a thread on 6BR right now talking about primers not going off and having hangfires and is under Reloading Forum. The thread is about a 300 Ultra and Tula primers. Matt
I shoot a few thousand rounds a year myself in many different long range comps.
I own a Pressure Trace II system, there is nothing about pressure I don't know, whether it's S.S.E. or other so called pressure excursions.
I haven't used CCI primers for 20 years, they weren't the best back then, especially their benchrest primers. I use either Winchester or Federal primers, both standard and magnum in small and large rifle.
The plug of unburned powder is more than likely the cause of a faulty primer than the fact it was compressed. The internet has so many untested theories that anybody can have a theory that sounds reasonable and everyone believes it.
By the way, S.S.E. (Secondary Explosion Effect) has NEVER been duplicated in a lab, NEVER, so it is still just a theory. I have duplicated hang fires while using my pressure trace, no pressure spikes to be seen, none. Hang fires occur because the primer flash runs over a low density load of slow burning powder, very few granules are ignited initially, then after a short time the powder burns normally, this may be due to using a standard primer when a magnum primer should have been used in a large capacity case.
There is also another phenomenon that has been seen on the pressure trace, not by me, that some extremely overbore cartridges show a second very high pressure spike just as the bullet LEAVES the barrel. Instead of dropping to zero pressure, the pressure jumps to 80, 000psi at the chamber, why? No body knows.

Cheers.
gun)
 
There is a guy that figured out how to get the secondary pressure spike. He had everything hooked up to measure pressure and was testing it when on the fifth or sixth shot it blew the end five or six inches off the barrel. It doesn't have to be a big overbore case either. Here are two threads about it I can't remember which is the one. One Hump or Two secondary pressure spike. Rifle chamber pressure testing Software & Load Analyzer. He was a gunsmith named Sisk. (I think) There is a few other ways it has happened but they don't know how or why it happened. A lot of times it blows the gun right apart. It just seems whenever there is a problem with primers it always involves the Russian ones or CCI. Matt
 
I had an ordeal with misfires in a rifle I had a while back...chased my tail for a while but finally figured it out...it was my sizing die, when set per the instructions it was sizing the case too much and causing a little too much head space...when the firing pin hit the round it pushed it forward without setting off the primer.

Most rounds would fire just fine...but every now and then one wouldn't...it bugged the hell out of me, I had a lot of time and money in that rifle, which was otherwise perfect in every way.

Took it to a gunsmith who figured out what was causing it...bought a new set of dies and it never misfired again...I could have just screwed the sizing die out a little which would have fixed it too, but I wanted that Redding National Match die set anyway.

Have you checked the head space of both your loaded rounds and the chamber?

Primers are duds sometimes...but if you get more than 1 or 2 per range session...I'd look into other things too.
 
Sounds like an issue my brother was experiencing. His Savage 116 stainless was turned into a 6br. He was using CCI primers and was getting a lot of them that weren't going off, he tried everything...even different primers with no luck.

Eventually I told him to take his bolt apart, clean it and try...still no luck. lightbulb So I then suggested he adjust his firing pin protrusion...fixed the issue and hasn't had a primer not go off since.gun)

There are a couple of good youtube vids about it, check 'em out and give it a try!
 
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