Help...Neck sizing vs Bump sizing

[Lonewolf74]

Aright to start off with I'm pretty new to reloading and so far have only made up rounds for my AR which has less room to "play" in order to feed correctly.

So now I want to dive into making loads for my bolt gun and after much research on the net I'm leaning towards FL resizing but setting the die to just bump the shoulder. 001 or so. I'm looking at Redding S dies with the bushing setup and the question I really have is how do I determine what size bushing I should use? How do I measure the chamber and neck size of my rifle? Do I measure everything off a fired case or is there a way to precisely measure my rifle's dimensions? Also what do the bushings control exactly, neck size or something else?

Any input on this or NS vs FL and the route I should take is greatly appreciated

 

[rcoody]

You are on the right.track

Lots of.opinions here. I expect to get.flamed with mine. Just.remember it is.just.my opinion. All the.different methods when done.correctly produce very accurate ammunition

I am a full length sizing.guy and.i don't do neck bushings. For.me it brings along.all the.same problems neck sizing does.

I recommend the forster benchrest full length sizing die. If you want to improve.on that once you know what neck size you want forster will hone it to your specifications for $40.

If you want the ultimate then send 5 pieces of at least 3 times fired.brass and not resized on the last.firing to either Allen or Whidden and have them make you a custom die.

Another option is to send fired brass to Harrel Precision and they will pick one.out.of inventory that.closely matches your chamber.

I have been down the neck sizing trail. I saw no great increase in accuracy and it brought with it a new group of problems. I don't like donuts and if you are going.to have to full length resize every 5 shots or so anyway what is the point?

 

[RichinVA]

I believe Harrell's only makes dies in specific cartridges, so you have to have one of those. Pretty limited selection. I have one for 6BR and it is nice.

I use Redding bushing dies. They are FLS dies, not neck dies, so they size the whole case, plus you get the flexibility to tune it to your neck dimensions. To determine your bushing size, measure a round with the bullet seated and deduct .001-.002. I usually do .001 but most of my rifles are single shots. .002 is plenty. Good brass will give you good neck tension. Wilson bushings. You use this every time you load. Brass gets worked to the absolute minimum.

If your rifle is factory you can probably use the SAAMI measurement for the neck. If a custom, you'll need the reamer print. To bump, take a once fired case and measure it with a comparator, then set up the die to move it .001. Better way yet is to Google 'sizing brass' by Wheeler Accuracy on YouTube.

If you ever want to turn necks, then all you have to do is get another bushing. Yes, the bushings only control neck size.

No flames here, just a different opinion. You gotta do what works for you. Having said that, a lot of people, me included, think the best place for an expander ball is in the trash......

 

[Greyfox]

I use a Redding S neck dye in the fashion you describe. To do it properly you will need a caliper and a headspace guage to measure your cases. Hornady makes a good kit. Simply take one of your fired cases and measure the headspace. Adjust your dye to size your case .002" less. For bushing size, take the bullet diameter (ex. .308), add the case mouth wall thickness and double it(ex. .015"x2=.030") Add this to the bullet diameter. This would be .338". I like a bushing size that is .002" smaller so I would use a .336" bushing. Some shooters may try a few i.e. .335", 336", .337".

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[Lonewolf74]

Thankyou much guy's I'm a little more clear on it. The thing I'm still not positive on is choosing the bushing. Like am I trying to get one that more closely matches my particular chamber in the neck area or is it kind of standard for a factory rifle and I choose based off what my calibers measurement at the neck is? What I mean by this is if I measure the neck off a loaded round it's not gonna tell me if it's tight or loose in my chamber. Or is it not the right idea to get the neck dimensions close to my chambers dimensions?

 

[Lonewolf74]

No flames here, just a different opinion. You gotta do what works for you. Having said that, a lot of people, me included, think the best place for an expander ball is in the trash......

I don't like the expander ball either I'll sometimes see a .003 difference in my resized brass for my AR and I'm pretty sure it depends mostly on how well the inside of the neck was lubed because the ball will actually pull the shoulder back out if lightly lubed. I can "feel" if it's gonna be bigger or smaller on the return stroke.

So how do you go about not using the expander ball?

 

[243winxb]

As said, measure a loaded rounds neck diameter. Buy a bushing .002" smaller to start. You will end up needing about 3 bushings.

The Redding full length sizing type S bushing die can be used with or without the expander. The items are included with the die.

 

[243winxb]

I size 1/2 of the neck. The unsized part expands to the chamber after a few firing. This improves accuracy.

No expander with neck turned brass.

Unturned brass may do better with the expander. With the correct bushing, a light drag from the bushing is felt as its pulled thru the necks. Lube the inside of the necks.

 

[Greyfox]

Thankyou much guy's I'm a little more clear on it. The thing I'm still not positive on is choosing the bushing. Like am I trying to get one that more closely matches my particular chamber in the neck area or is it kind of standard for a factory rifle and I choose based off what my calibers measurement at the neck is? What I mean by this is if I measure the neck off a loaded round it's not gonna tell me if it's tight or loose in my chamber. Or is it not the right idea to get the neck dimensions close to my chambers dimensions?

Your choice of bushing is not generally based on your chamber neck which is going to be larger by +.003' larger then your rounds neck size. The choice of bushing is based upon the degree of desired neck tension on your bullet. About.002"smaller then your bullet diameter is standard. The thickness of the brass and degree of neck tension desired is a determining factor on bushing choice.

 

[BountyHunter]

1. Stay with FL sizing. You will not regret it.

2. Consider a custom die made from a redfing body die and custom honed to your chamber and converted to fl bushing by Jim Carstenson at JLC Precision. $80.

3. Watch the videos first at Wheeler Accuracy. They will help you and answer many of your questions. They are the best help you will get.

 

[RichinVA]

Thankyou much guy's I'm a little more clear on it. The thing I'm still not positive on is choosing the bushing. Like am I trying to get one that more closely matches my particular chamber in the neck area or is it kind of standard for a factory rifle and I choose based off what my calibers measurement at the neck is? What I mean by this is if I measure the neck off a loaded round it's not gonna tell me if it's tight or loose in my chamber. Or is it not the right idea to get the neck dimensions close to my chambers dimensions?

Ok, here's an example: You have a factory 243 Winchester. SAAMI specs tell us that the chamber neck dimension is .277. You have some nice Lapua 243 brass whose neck wall measures about .0145. So......... .0145 + .0145 + .243 = .272. That's .005 less than your chamber. Figure you want at least .001 release clearance, probably .002-.003 if this is a field use rifle. So you're really not that far out of line using our figures. The only way you can control this is to get another barrel with tighter neck dimensions and either set it up for a no-turn or turn your brass. If your dies are set up right and you have good concentricity, you'll be in good shape. I believe having concentric ammo is far more important than neck clearance.

 

[Lonewolf74]

243winxb a 243 is what I'm starting with. So I get what to measure and how to choose the bushing. The last question I have is why get 2-3 of them what does it accomplish and what are you looking for in trying out the different sizes? 243winxb if you could would you tell me what each of the 3 size bushings does for you or what you use each size for? And what size would you start with for factory brass?

 

[Lonewolf74]

Thanks again for the help guy's.

 

[rcoody]

243winxb a 243 is what I'm starting with. So I get what to measure and how to choose the bushing. The last question I have is why get 2-3 of them what does it accomplish and what are you looking for in trying out the different sizes? 243winxb if you could would you tell me what each of the 3 size bushings does for you or what you use each size for? And what size would you start with for factory brass?

Basically it is.just.a.method.of.adjusting neck tension. What i have.found is consistent neck tension is what is most important. if you don't anneal your brass often then all this bushing business is for naught.