Hard to believe part 2 the answer

skipglo

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That's what we are getting at,
Wind...30 mph CONSTANT WIND...no deviations...thru 850 yards and 3 to 20 feet of elevation...there is nothing unbelievable about his claims fellas...no one asked or challenged him on location! Hell I consistently do the same thing but shoot MICE.

....in the 927.587 yard long x 100 yard wide constant velocity wind tunnel we put up on MARS...however I guess less gravity...may have a role in my accuracy...darn... didn't think about that before this!
 

Hecouldgoalltheway

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Wind...30 mph CONSTANT WIND...no deviations...thru 850 yards and 3 to 20 feet of elevation...there is nothing unbelievable about his claims fellas...no one asked or challenged him on location! Hell I consistently do the same thing but shoot MICE.

....in the 927.587 yard long x 100 yard wide constant velocity wind tunnel we put up on MARS...however I guess less gravity...may have a role in my accuracy...darn... didn't think about that before this!
Have you ever seen wind? There is no such thing as a constant 30mph wind at 800y. That kind of wind gives you a wind call that is good for about as long as it takes you to think about it, and then it's changed, maybe significantly. Of course you'd need to be within about 3mph on your total wind formula to hit a Prarie dog at 800y with a .223.
 

skipglo

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Have you ever seen wind? There is no such thing as a constant 30mph wind at 800y. That kind of wind gives you a wind call that is good for about as long as it takes you to think about it, and then it's changed, maybe significantly. Of course you'd need to be within about 3mph on your total wind formula to hit a Prarie dog at 800y with a .223.
That wassss the point Iwas making....( Just in case you read something different 😃)
P.S. .....have I ever SEEN THE WIND...I guess the correct answer is No....You? Lmao
 
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longestrange

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Despite the much lower mass of Mars the diameter is smaller resulting in about 1/3 of earth's gravity. That would significantly reduce bullet drop at longer distances. The atmospheric pressure is only about .09 psi depending on elevation. Wind speed averages about 10-15 mph depending on the season but the extreme low pressure/density of the atmosphere would result in almost zero wind drift and very low loss of velocity. Low density air results in low Reynolds numbers, dramatically reducing drag below mach 0.8 or so. But there is the issue of Mach numbers. Mach numbers will increase with decreasing pressure at the same ground speed. Then again, low temperatures on Mars will increase the velocity over ground to obtain Mach 1.0. Another variable would be the composition of the 'air' - mostly CO2. All in all, as long as you don't cross a mach boundary, 850 yd dogs in 30mph winds would be trivial.
 
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F-270

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F4D4407F-63E2-4963-BDD9-DF73234EEF1B.gif


Ok, I know I’m new here but pmacc is use to this kind of thing from me. No offense guys.
 
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skipglo

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Despite the much lower mass of Mars the diameter is smaller resulting in about 1/3 of earth's gravity. That would significantly reduce bullet drop at longer distances. The atmospheric pressure is only about .09 psi depending on elevation. Wind speed averages about 10-15 mph depending on the season but the extreme low pressure/density of the atmosphere would result in almost zero wind drift and very low loss of velocity. Low density air results in low Reynolds numbers, dramatically reducing drag below mach 0.8 or so. But there is the issue of Mach numbers. Mach numbers will increase with decreasing pressure at the same ground speed. Then again, low temperatures on Mars will increase the velocity over ground to obtain Mach 1.0. Another variable would be the composition of the 'air' - mostly CO2. All in all, as long as you don't cross a mach boundary, 850 yd dogs in 30mph winds would be trivial.
A fellow Astronaut....YEAH!
 

milo-2

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Of course you'd need to be within about 3mph on your total wind formula to hit a Prarie dog at 800y with a .223.
Actually, you would have to be about spot on. 1mph less wind is 9", 3mph less wind would be 25" shift. This is a 52gr bullet at 3000fps. So best case scenario, a 40gr bullet would be all over the place.
 

Hecouldgoalltheway

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Actually, you would have to be about spot on. 1mph less wind is 9", 3mph less wind would be 25" shift. This is a 52gr bullet at 3000fps. So best case scenario, a 40gr bullet would be all over the place.
I was using a.... um... eastern crested ringneck Prarie dog for my example. They are bigger than any you've probably ever seen. Basically small deer, but prairie dogs
 

Bill28

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I don't know the fella you're referring to OP (@Pmacc60), so I dare not speculate what category of shooter he is. However, I can share my own experiences which might help frame your approach. When I lay down in my pdog towns here on a nice calm day with my 6mm Dasher or 6BR or 6BRA, etc... adult prairie dogs fully exposed atop their mounds at 800yds will have a very difficult time remaining alive once I've launched a couple rounds to that general location on the dog town. It can take a few misses to get dialed into the condition some days if it's really sporty. Those big chunky ones are 5-6" worth of hit zone. More, if they are laid out horizontal a bit rather than standing tall. By mid day, I've usually fired enough rounds to enough sectors of the town to really be locked in and it becomes ruthlessly deadly for them inside of 800yds. On days like that, 500yds and inward becomes quite boring. However, if the conditions start taking a turn for the worse, that capability gets ratcheted in close VERY quickly and exponentially if we're talking about trying to keep at least a 90% hit ratio. When the wind starts bucking 20mph+... I need to ratchet my distance expectation back to about 300yds, and even closer the smaller of a cartridge I'm running. Ten mph or less and if its nice and steady, I can still do some good work out there at the further reaches of the average sized towns. In a 30mph wind... I just don't find myself connecting past 400yds very frequently. Prairie dogs would rather not be up in that mess, so the shot numbers are drastically reduced in the first place.

Now if we're talking pups at the end of april or early may... those little striped gopher-sized fellas can be difficult to land first round hits on past 400-500 or so no matter the conditions or how well I'm locked in. Some of them are no more than an inch or inch and half wide when standing tall! I go from shaving their hair on the left, to shaving their hair on the right with rounds launched less than 1 second apart! However, this can be easily remedied with a little patience, as you wait for them to clump up on a mound and present a much larger target. Often providing a 2 for 1 or even 3-4 for 1 shot opportunity. Parts of the ones that get hit can kill the ones standing around. Pretty effective when you're trying to neutralize a towns expansion capability for the year.

Though I must say, I have no interest in making these attempts in South Dakota conditions with lightweight bullets. A finitely tuned 6BRA or 6Dasher is right at home for the task. A tenth of a mil forgiveness in the wind is very welcomed on those small targets at the further ranges. It never occurs to me to bring my AR15's to the dog town. They just don't seem to provide the level of repeatable precision necessary to get the shot to impact percentages where I'd want them to be. My goal is to have at least 1 prairie dog killed for each round fired. As long as I'm patient, I can get enough triples and doubles to eclipse my misses and come out ahead. If I get a little too greedy, well that percentage will suffer greatly if I'm taking too many shots outside the ballistic comfort zone of the cartridge I'm running. I'm VERY guilty of doing this with my 17WSM RimX rimfire rifles! ;)

I find that it doesn't serve me to speculate on who is lying about their performances online. However, I can always invite shooters to a pdog town if I'm ever that curious about their ability to perform the feats they advertise. I'll either witness it with my own eyes then, or be treated by the barrage of excuses as to why it is not occurring as they said it would. A shooter that could accomplish sequential hits on prairie dogs with a 50gr 22 cal bullet at a distance of 800yds repeatedly in the areas I shoot?... boy, that fella could surely teach me a thing or two about being a rifleman. My 22BR with 80gr bergers can run with the best of them in the 22cal category... but 800yds gets a little sporty most days. In early fall, when the pdogs are the size of a fat house cat... it gets a lot easier. :D

I often do find myself overly concerned with other shooters hit percentages. Not for admonishing them, but for any ways I can help them improve it! If a shooter can't find the strength within them to avoid stretching the truth... maybe I can help them gain the skillset which would allow them to match their capabilities up with their claims. They might just ratchet their claims up even higher, but that's none of my business. Maybe you could help that fella become a real shooter @Pmacc60! That's a worthwhile goal if ever there was one. One direction is divisive and hostile. The other direction is fun and inviting. I'm trying to suggest that we take stock of our attitudes in the way we approach other shooters. I've been overly harsh with people that made unrealistic claims before, and it usually just doesn't turn out nicely. Rifle enthusiasts are going to have quite the battle on our hands in the next few years. I'd suggest we find a way to unite, rather than divide... if there's any practical way to do it.

Just something to consider. :)

MZ7BoXVh.jpg


Another thing to consider is that it's 2021... and technology is prevalent! Allow me to demonstrate. Earlier today I quickly grabbed a rifle and put 5 shots on target at 300yds, just to show how easy it is to give demonstrations to the masses these days. This took me about 1 minute to setup a couple tripods and a minute to actually run the video. It took maybe another minute to upload it, and it will take youtube 4-20 hours to finish encoding the 4k version. (if ever) There really isn't any reason not to provide proof in modern times, if you put any stock in what people think of your claims. You don't have to edit it, in fact it's better if you don't, and you can even do range confirmation by giving the camera a glance through the LRF quick. Regardless of that, if I can shoot the video below, off a rolly chair, up on a bench, out my window with monstrous mirage obscuring the target due to the heat from the house escaping into the cold, then it stands to reason there are plenty of folks walking around that can hit a prairie dogs quite a ways out there with some regularity. Especially laying out in a proper firing position on a lovely day. I know a few guys like that. I'm not thinking they'd be using lightweight bullets either... but that's another story. I can say I'd watch a video of someone consistently popping pdogs at 800yds with 50gr'ers out of an AR. That would be a fun video to watch indeed!

Never been P-dog hunting before would love to go
 

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