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Generalized bullet selection for hunting….

nksmfamjp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
3,466
I would like to propose my general theory for hunting bullet selection and request/encourage open discussion about it. You can even tell me I'm an idiot or I'm wrong. My only request is we try to keep it respectful for readers, but that is certainly your choice.

My view on bullet selection has been formed over the years of lots of study, many Antelope, mule deer killed and even an elk. Unlike many here, I have not killed enough big elk.

So here it goes…to me, everything is based on muzzle velocity initially. Basically I see that as bullets launched under 2700 fps as slow, 2700-3100 as medium velocity and over 3100 as fast. This also essentially along with bc are the key drivers that limit a bullets range to perform.

The second key thing to me is I want a bullet to carry through and exit(even with a long quartering shot). I also want it to expand after entering the rib cage. Last, I don't want explosive expansion and 3" exit holes which do excessive meat damage at times. In addition, tumbling kills game, but is not a reliable enough killer for me to count on it.

Then bullets group into "softs", controlled expansion, and mono's. "Softs" are lead in a standard thickness jacket designed to expand very rapidly. These are bullets like the Nosler Ballistic Tip, Berger Hunting, Hornady Interlock…albeit, there is some expansion control in the Hornady and many others. These bullets pair well with slow and the slower medium velocity cartridges from 0 yards until they drop below 1800fps (some as low as 1500fps) or so. If initial velocity is over 2900, they tend to look explosive at shots under 100 yards. This becomes bad performance quick. I worry about when 90gr of a 200gr bullet exits, where does the rest of it go? How much killing is the other 110gr doing.

Match bullets on game that are good on game generally perform like softs. This needs tested as some perform like solids. ….of course with better bc. If your bullet is great at 800yds, but blows up at 50yds, do you just get a second rifle from your gun bearer for close shots?

Next, the controlled expansion bullets like the Hornady ELD-X, Federal Trophy Bonded Tip, Federal Terminal Ascent, Nosler Accubond, ABLR and Swift Sciracco can be amazing performers. These perform from 3200fps down to 1800fps or sometimes less with very reliable performance and generally much better weight retention at high velocity. This allows the full bullet to do work all the way through the animal and exit, even when steeply quartering. This is usually my choice.

Last are the mono's like Hammers, Barnes, Hornady CX, etc. These often have near 100% weight retention or break large chunks off intentionally which perform as mini bullets. I prefer the ones that hold together. They expand and really seem to cut flesh well like an arrow. These generally can be driven as hard as you like….3600fps is not too fast! Their only weakness is that they often don't perform well below 2000fps and bc's are often a bit worse that lead core bullets.

In my case, I'm running a 300 Sherman this year. If I can get decent accuracy from my Barnes LRX bullets, they will be my bullet this year for a nice muley. They are running about 3050fps out of a 10 twist Brux barrel. That said, they seem accuracy tempermental. How does that compare to what you are going to use this year? I may try some Hornady CX also.
 
For me this year it will be the 7mm-08 with a 168gr Berger Hybrid, good out to 550 yds which is my max range.

My wife will be using her 7mm-08 with the 162gr AMax, same ranges as me.

For the speeds of this cartridge and our max ranges, these bullets work perfectly.

Happy hunting!

Edit, these are for deer.

Edit, make that coues deer, just posted on the AZGFD website
 
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I was gonna say, you're an idiot, (jokingly that is) just to say that. But I'm not gonna do it.

I'm with you on the Barnes. I emailed Barnes asking what's the lowest velocity for full expansion. This was their reply,

200 gr LRX = 1600 fps

208 gr LRX = 1700 fps

212 gr LRX = 1600 fps

Haven't tested it yet, but I'm sure someone will chime in.
I too want a bullet that holds together.

From what I understand the ELD X at close range is very explosive. I will find out when I get that new 300prc within a month.
 
You summed it up quite well!
I will be using my 7mm08 for whitetail deer and I am shooting Nosler 140 grain ballistic tips which have worked excellent for me at moderate ranges at 2825 fps.
I will occasionally take my 280AI and move to the accubond for the higher velocity.
Good luck with your load work up with the Barnes
 
I was gonna say, you're an idiot, (jokingly that is) just to say that. But I'm not gonna do it.

I'm with you on the Barnes. I emailed Barnes asking what's the lowest velocity for full expansion. This was their reply,

200 gr LRX = 1600 fps

208 gr LRX = 1700 fps

212 gr LRX = 1600 fps

Haven't tested it yet, but I'm sure someone will chime in.
I too want a bullet that holds together.

From what I understand the ELD X at close range is very explosive. I will find out when I get that new 300prc within a month.
Did they tell you for the 175 LRX?
 
I'd reclassify velocities. 1800-2400 is slow, 2400-2800 is medium, 2800-3100 is high, and anything over 3100 is in that hyper velocity to me. So 416 rem mag is slow, 30-06 with 180's is upper medium, 7 mag with 175's is high, and 257 wby is hyper. I tend to think 2700-2950 or so is about optimal for general purpose because from 0-500 you'll get proper bullet performance assuming it's got a good BC. Meaning it will hold together at the muzzle and it will hit at 2000 ft/sec or above at 500 and still give good performance. As far as the Barnes "fully" expanding at 1600 I don't believe that. There is a channel on YouTube who has shot the 127 LRX into water jugs and after 300 yards expansion dropped noticeably. I think at 500 it was at or above 2k ft/sec and it expanded but not much.

Found it but realize it's a 127 from a 270 wsm so it may have crossed over from hyper velocity to Mach-Jesus speeds
 

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I'd reclassify velocities. 1800-2400 is slow, 2400-2800 is medium, 2800-3100 is high, and anything over 3100 is in that hyper velocity to me. So 416 rem mag is slow, 30-06 with 180's is upper medium, 7 mag with 175's is high, and 257 wby is hyper.
Basically, I'm choosing these ranges based on how they impact bullet selection. I do agree my above post really doesn't cover the specialties that generally are under 2400, e.g., 350 Legend, 45-70, 458 Lott well at all, but they basically need special bullets designed for the exact cartridge….Ex the 325FTX would not work at all in 458 Lott, but is a limited range deer slayer in the 45-70.
 
Over the years I have used ballistic Tips and Accubonds. I haven't tried the Hammer bullets yet. I don't really have a rifle that has the twist rate to handle them. I didn't generally carry a camera with me to take pictures of wound channels. Over the 64 years I've hunting I have looked a great many animals killed by me and others more so. Found that Partition don't like high velocity or at close range. Only used a 100gr in my 25/06 once and bloodshot one entire side of a deer at about 40yds. Never use them again. At that time I changed to 120 Nosler SPBT and have used them after that. I move up to 308NM with 165gr Ballistic tips for elk hunting and deer hunting @ 3300fps. They did a great job from close range out 500yds or so. Most of the time I didn't have a range finder either. Shots or kills were from 40yds to over 300yds appox. No ranger finder at those times. Very little meat damage at any range I was shooting at. Over the years I seem to like the 338 WM round better on elk class animals better. I have looked at other animal that were taken by other hunters using .338 WM chambers, over those same years. They seem to do a better job in dropping the elk and larger animals, than my 308 NM. I now use a 338 with 200gr Nosler ballistic, and Nosler Accubonds @ 3200+fps. Not much in blood shot meat either. My exit holes were not of any great amount, and blood shot was very little.
Now if my rifles can't do over 3100fps, and group in the 1/2:" or under at 100yds, I am not interested in them personally. To each there own. Most rifles I have loaded for over the years I have been able to achieve that. The other bullet I have been impressed with was the 130gr Sierra B.T in a 270 on deer. I've seen over 150 deer taken by those bullets. From every directions. There wasn't much blood shot areas either. Presently I don't know on how they perform. My cousins are all gone now, and there boys don't hunt much.
There a lot of bullets I have looked at their wound channel, and most I wouldn't use either. "Picky"
 
Over the years I have used ballistic Tips and Accubonds. I haven't tried the Hammer bullets yet. I don't really have a rifle that has the twist rate to handle them. I didn't generally carry a camera with me to take pictures of wound channels. Over the 64 years I've hunting I have looked a great many animals killed by me and others more so. Found that Partition don't like high velocity or at close range. Only used a 100gr in my 25/06 once and bloodshot one entire side of a deer at about 40yds. Never use them again. At that time I changed to 120 Nosler SPBT and have used them after that. I move up to 308NM with 165gr Ballistic tips for elk hunting and deer hunting @ 3300fps. They did a great job from close range out 500yds or so. Most of the time I didn't have a range finder either. Shots or kills were from 40yds to over 300yds appox. No ranger finder at those times. Very little meat damage at any range I was shooting at. Over the years I seem to like the 338 WM round better on elk class animals better. I have looked at other animal that were taken by other hunters using .338 WM chambers, over those same years. They seem to do a better job in dropping the elk and larger animals, than my 308 NM. I now use a 338 with 200gr Nosler ballistic, and Nosler Accubonds @ 3200+fps. Not much in blood shot meat either. My exit holes were not of any great amount, and blood shot was very little.
Now if my rifles can't do over 3100fps, and group in the 1/2:" or under at 100yds, I am not interested in them personally. To each there own. Most rifles I have loaded for over the years I have been able to achieve that. The other bullet I have been impressed with was the 130gr Sierra B.T in a 270 on deer. I've seen over 150 deer taken by those bullets. From every directions. There wasn't much blood shot areas either. Presently I don't know on how they perform. My cousins are all gone now, and there boys don't hunt much.
There a lot of bullets I have looked at their wound channel, and most I wouldn't use either. "Picky"
I'm surprised at those speeds and some of your lighter bullets you haven't seen more "explosive " performance!
 
I'm a huge fan of bonded bullets (I've only used Accubonds). And I have a collection of bullets that says they certainly don't all exit. I'd rather they did for blood trail but they don't. In fact, I'd say they don't-exit more than they do-exit. But that's just my experience. We all know this is 90% a function of shot placement, angle, impact velocity etc. I also have had great luck with monos when I've used them. I have several of these that says they also don't always exit. I've gone completely away from cup and core as I just don't like all those lead shards flying around and creating bloodshot meat, but again that's just me.
If I wasn't ever worried about a legal imperative on no-lead, I'd move to monos and never look back.
 
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