First Loads: Range Results

[emn83]

Well, after more than a week of my first hand loads sitting in my cabin, I finally took them to the range yesterday for a little testing.

I was shooting:
Hornady Match Brass
Hornady 178gr A-Max bullets
Varget Powder at 41.0, 42.0, 43.0, 43.5 and 44 grains
CCI 200 primers.

first a confession, I must have bumped my scope or something because all of my shots with the 42gr were off the paper, and I got no usable data. With the other powder weights, I shot two 3 round groups, with results as follows>

42.0gr: 1.111" and 0.63" Average" .8705
43.0gr: 0.85" and 2.049" (0.44)* Average: 1.447 (o.645)*
43.5gr: 1.68 (0.077)* and 0.50 Average: 1.095 (0.58)*
44.0gr: 2.16" and 2.985 Average: 2.57

*groups and averages without fliers, though of course 2 shots really isn't a group.

I was really surprised at how the group with 44gr of powder ballooned so much. At first I thought it was because I was tired, but when I went back and did the second group with each level, I shot 44, 43, 43.5, so the second 43,5 group was the last group of the night. I had shot both groups with 42 one after the other, just to make sure my sights were on.

I let the barrel cool between strings of shots, but did not clean between strings, should I have done that?

I plan on going back and re testing the 43 and 43.5 and maybe the 42 at 200 yards, to see how they do, and to set my zero for 200 yards.

Any questions or comments/suggestions are welcome, this was my first attempt at reloading, and I already noticed an improvement in my groups, this was the first time I shot multiple groups under 1MOA

 

[rscott5028]

Be sure your scope mounts are good and solid. Scopes shouldn't easily get bumped off the paper. If you're getting lots of fliers, then something's not quite right with your equipment, load recipe, or technique.

What cartridge are you shooting?

What's your barrel length and twist?

How far off the lands are you? And, how did you determine that?

What kind of dies and brass prep procedure did you use?

What's the ID of your sized neck? (bullet tension)

Did you begin to see any signs of pressure as you got to the 44gr loads?

1.0 gr step size is a lot. You can easily miss an accuracy node.

It seems like this was a good confidence builder for you and you got a glimpse of what you can do. But, you may want to start again and shoot only one 3 shot group at .5gr or even .3gr steps from minimum to maximum watching for accuracy nodes and signs of pressure.

Nice start though.
-- richard

 

[emn83]

Be sure your scope mounts are good and solid. Scopes shouldn't easily get bumped off the paper. If you're getting lots of fliers, then something's not quite right with your equipment, load recipe, or technique. I think the problem was that When I added the 20 MOA base to my rifle, I over adjusted the elevation on the scope, I was 10 inches low at 100 yards, so I'm thinking that I messed with the elevation at some time, didn't record it, and got messed up. The base and rings are new, so I plan on rechecking how they are on there. There were only the 2 fliers, everything else grouped fairly well, both fliers were low, if that helps

What cartridge are you shooting? 308 Win can't believe I forgot that

What's your barrel length and twist? 22in BBL 1:10 twist

How far off the lands are you? And, how did you determine that? haven't determined that, that's the next thing

What kind of dies and brass prep procedure did you use? standard RCBS .308 dies, followed the instructions for that. All cases were 2.005-2.008" after sizing...think the die slipped a little bit...planning on neck sizing only after this

What's the ID of your sized neck? (bullet tension) Do not know

Did you begin to see any signs of pressure as you got to the 44gr loads? didn't see any pressure signs, which was why I was so surprised

1.0 gr step size is a lot. You can easily miss an accuracy node. I know it's a lot, I'm going to go back and do half grain steps, it's part of the reason I had 43, 43.5 and 44gr steps at the end there, mainly I did it that way to get familiar with the equipment

It seems like this was a good confidence builder for you and you got a glimpse of what you can do. But, you may want to start again and shoot only one 3 shot group at .5gr or even .3gr steps from minimum to maximum watching for accuracy nodes and signs of pressure.

Nice start though.
-- richard

Thanks for the in put,

This has been a real learning process I am planning on going back and doing half grain steps to see, though between 42 and 44 grains, I might do .3gr steps, because the 43 and 43.5 got the best results The really erratic group at 44 really confused me, so, I think I'll try steps at 43.3, 43.5, 43.7 and again at 44 grains, to see if there is a difference, next time, i think I'll try 3-5 rds at each.

any more advice/comments is always welcome

 

[rscott5028]

308 win, 22", 1:10 twist should be able to stabilize any bullet you can squeeze in the magazine. So, that's not going to cause any fliers with 178's.

You don't have to know the exact measurement for jump/jam. But, it's good to know. You mostly need to keep track of relative measurements. After you find a suitable powder charge, you might want to try a few rounds at various seating depths. And, you'll want a comparator or micrometer die or something that helps you get back to your desired seating depth.

Depending on how you plan to use the rifle, there's nothing wrong with FL sizing. But, good and consistent neck tension is important for consistent MV. Ideally, you want to be about .001-.002" below caliber with your neck ID after sizing. So, .306-.307" neck ID is about where you want to be.

Neck tension is a function of the neck wall thickness vs your die. Bushing dies let you adjust neck tension. Neck wall thickness variation will affect concentricity (rather TIR) of the loaded bullet.

If you FL size, you should verify that you're set to consistently bump the shoulder back about .003". Hornady or Sinclair type comparators will help you determine that.

44.0gr is book max which is often conservative. It wouldn't hurt to load some at 44.3, 44.6, and 44.9. Just be prepared to stop and pull the bullets if you do see signs of pressure and be aware that some lot numbers of Varget will shoot hotter and your ammo will also have higher pressure in the heat of summer. So, you don't want to be on the edge.

.2gr step sizes may almost be too small. Many scales are barely accurate to within .2 gr eventhough they read in tenths.

-- richard

 

[emn83]

308 win, 22", 1:10 twist should be able to stabilize any bullet you can squeeze in the magazine. So, that's not going to cause any fliers with 178's.

You don't have to know the exact measurement for jump/jam. But, it's good to know. You mostly need to keep track of relative measurements. After you find a suitable powder charge, you might want to try a few rounds at various seating depths. And, you'll want a comparator or micrometer die or something that helps you get back to your desired seating depth.

Depending on how you plan to use the rifle, there's nothing wrong with FL sizing. But, good and consistent neck tension is important for consistent MV. Ideally, you want to be about .001-.002" below caliber with your neck ID after sizing. So, .306-.307" neck ID is about where you want to be.

Neck tension is a function of the neck wall thickness vs your die. Bushing dies let you adjust neck tension. Neck wall thickness variation will affect concentricity (rather TIR) of the loaded bullet.

If you FL size, you should verify that you're set to consistently bump the shoulder back about .003". Hornady or Sinclair type comparators will help you determine that.

44.0gr is book max which is often conservative. It wouldn't hurt to load some at 44.3, 44.6, and 44.9. Just be prepared to stop and pull the bullets if you do see signs of pressure and be aware that some lot numbers of Varget will shoot hotter and your ammo will also have higher pressure in the heat of summer. So, you don't want to be on the edge.

.2gr step sizes may almost be too small. Many scales are barely accurate to within .2 gr eventhough they read in tenths.

-- richard

Thanks for the info!
got to say, hand loading has been one of the biggest learning experiences I've had, and it's been totally fun. about the .2 gr measurements, I'm not totally sure my scale will be that accurate, it's just the RCBS 5-0-5, I was just using those as examples, not totally sure on what I'll use as an interval. I just checked Hodgdon, and Lee, they both have 45 as the max for varget, so I might bump up the powders like you suggest. I'm thinking a 1.8 grain spread, starting at 43 and going up to like 44.8, with just maybe 3 rounds at each interval any advice on what grain interval to use would be great

 

[rscott5028]

Thanks for the info!
got to say, hand loading has been one of the biggest learning experiences I've had, and it's been totally fun. about the .2 gr measurements, I'm not totally sure my scale will be that accurate, it's just the RCBS 5-0-5, I was just using those as examples, not totally sure on what I'll use as an interval. I just checked Hodgdon, and Lee, they both have 45 as the max for varget, so I might bump up the powders like you suggest. I'm thinking a 1.8 grain spread, starting at 43 and going up to like 44.8, with just maybe 3 rounds at each interval any advice on what grain interval to use would be great

I learn something new every day. And the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know much.

There's more than one way to get there. So, perhaps you'll get some additional feedback.

-- richard

 

[emn83]

Thanks again Richard,

I'm hoping for some others to chime in also, you've given me some awesome advice, but like you said, there's a lot of different ways to do things

 

[emn83]

got a break from the kids here at work and did a little figuring. I think for my next test I'll load

43.2
43.5 (again)
43.8
44.3
44.6

Grains of powder, then, with these, I'll take the top 2-3 shooters, and go out to 200 yards for another test. Looking at 2 range trips for this. At least that's my current idea

 

[emn83]

hate to bump a thread up, but does anybody have any input on my plan for my second loading?? I'm thinking about making the rounds tonight, and want some final input before putting them together.

 

[Korhil78]

Sounds good, just make sure that your scope is on good. Just remember that the powder charge is not the only thing that affects accuracy. If you find one that shoots a 1/2" to 3/4" group at 200 yards consistantly then you should be good. I would take the best group from your next test and if isn't as tight as you like, play with the seating depth a bit to see if it will tighten up any.

 

[emn83]

Sounds good, just make sure that your scope is on good. Just remember that the powder charge is not the only thing that affects accuracy. If you find one that shoots a 1/2" to 3/4" group at 200 yards consistantly then you should be good. I would take the best group from your next test and if isn't as tight as you like, play with the seating depth a bit to see if it will tighten up any.

Thank you! That's exactly my plan, after this round of testing, I want to have 1-2 loads to test different OALs and such, Then I'll start some more testing at 200 yards, the farthest distance I can shoot at the range I am going to right now.

 

[Korhil78]

Let us know how it goes!

 

[emn83]

Let us know how it goes!

That's the plan

 

[emn83]

well, took the next set of rounds to the range yesterday, it was cold and windy, not the best day for testing hand loads. and Since I forgot the front rest I used the first time, I had to use my bipod, which, for me, isn't as stable.

43.2, 433.5 and 43.8 grains of powder worked OK, with 42 having the best single group, but 43.8 being the most consistent. 44.3 grains of powder made a group that was a straight horizontal like 2.5 inches across, not sure how to interpret that except maybe me not doing a good job taking the wind into account, it was about an 8 mph wind coming from between 10-11 o'clock

Next time, I'll prepare better...spur of the moment testing is not a good way to do things, but well, a not so great day at the range is still better than most days at work.

Next test will be:

43.5 grains of powder
44.8 gr
44.3 gr


These I'll probably test at 100 and 2oo yards, I'm thinking one five shot group at 100 and one five shot at 200. Thoughts?