Fire-forming load help.

[SavageHunter11]

All week I loaded 22 Hornet brass with the hopes of fire-forming them into 22 K-Hornet brass. From what I had gathered online, when fire-forming, you use a starting or medium load in the manual and you should be good to go which makes sense to me because I've fire-formed 50 rounds with factory Hornady ammo.

So (in my infinite wisdom) I loaded 300 rounds of 22 Hornet with 40gr Nosler Varmageddon and 40gr Hornady V-Max bullets over 10gr of H110. At the range yesterday I tried three of each load and all six split the cases. So I know this weekend I'm going to be disassembling 294 cases of 22 Hornet but my question is where did I go wrong? Did I use too much powder or do I need to use a slower (or faster) powder to fire-form? I tried the cream-o-wheat method last summer and ended up just wasting primers and I have successfully fireformed 50 rounds of K-hornet using factory loaded Hornady ammunition so when I was splitting cases with a medium load from the Hornady manual I was more than surprised so I'm finally waving the white flag and admitting I need help.

 

[MagMan]

Where are your bullets seated?

 

[crystalgayleguy]

new brass or fired brass

 

[jasent]

Could try annealing a few first and see if that helps. I'm guessing it's once fired?

 

[crystalgayleguy]

also what brand

 

[SavageHunter11]

new brass or fired brass

New PPU brass

 

[SavageHunter11]

Could try annealing a few first and see if that helps. I'm guessing it's once fired?

It's brand new brass from PPU and it looked like it was annealed slightly. The necks were slightly discolored like it had been annealed but if someone were to tell me that's from the machining process of forming the brass at the factory I would believe that too because the discoloration wasn't much.

 

[SavageHunter11]

Where are your bullets seated?

I don't have a comparator (yet) so I don't know exactly where the bullet was seated but it was off the lands for sure. I loaded a dummy round long and it was in the lands and kept seating the bullet a quarter turn of the die until I couldn't tell it was touching and then went another half turn to be sure. In the end the bullet was seated down to the top of the bearing surface on the bullet.

 

[Rflshootr]

Normally I seat the bullet at least .010 into the lands and up about .025. This helps keep the head of the case against the bolt face when the firing pin strikes it. I also put a small drop of oil on the case body and smear it around with my fingers to help keep the case from gripping the chamber wall. As far as powder, I pick a charge mid to upper, but not max, for the parent cartridge. As the case expands, it creates more room internally for gas to expand. Hornet case are pretty thin and fragile, so splitting isn't unusual on some. If you have a way to anneal the necks first, you may want to consider that option. Another way is to expand the neck to 6mm, then resize with the k-hornet die just enough to create a false shoulder that the bolt will close snug against and hold the round against the bolt face.

 

[Velvet]

All week I loaded 22 Hornet brass with the hopes of fire-forming them into 22 K-Hornet brass. From what I had gathered online, when fire-forming, you use a starting or medium load in the manual and you should be good to go which makes sense to me because I've fire-formed 50 rounds with factory Hornady ammo.

So (in my infinite wisdom) I loaded 300 rounds of 22 Hornet with 40gr Nosler Varmageddon and 40gr Hornady V-Max bullets over 10gr of H110. At the range yesterday I tried three of each load and all six split the cases. So I know this weekend I'm going to be disassembling 294 cases of 22 Hornet but my question is where did I go wrong? Did I use too much powder or do I need to use a slower (or faster) powder to fire-form? I tried the cream-o-wheat method last summer and ended up just wasting primers and I have successfully fireformed 50 rounds of K-hornet using factory loaded Hornady ammunition so when I was splitting cases with a medium load from the Hornady manual I was more than surprised so I'm finally waving the white flag and admitting I need help.

Hello
I have never loaded that cartridge, but the problem you are having is excessive head space.
The cream-o-wheat method works perfect for a first case formation.
The key is to generate zero head space. This can be achieved with a false shoulder, with an expander of greater diameter than the caliber, (e.g. 25-06 to 243), so that the shoulder rests on the chamber when you close the bolt, and does not move forward to the shot moment generating that stretch. There has to be some resistance when you close the bolt.
You need the expander mentioned, and a bushing die to get

the diameter of your caliber.
Other people, sit the bullet in the rifling, to prevent the case from doing the work described, but I do not like that method, I prefer to touch shoulder against chamber.
I leave you some pictures of cases from 308 fireformed to 243ai with the cream-o-wheat method.
I hope it helps.
Regards
V

 

[nevada75]

I had the same problem forming 30-30AI using PPU brass using a mid-level charge. After lots of measurements and weighing individual cases I found PPU is heavy, thick case walls, etc reducing internal case capacity thus resulting in higher pressure. Sort like loading military surplus brass. I backed off to a lite starting load with lightweight bullets and the issue went away.

Keep in mind the pressure issue when doing load development with your fireformed brass. I couldn't get anywhere near max published loads before pressure signs and higher velocity occured.

 

[L.Sherm]

I've fireformed thousands of cases just jamming into the lands so your not creating headspace issues. I know some hornet brass is thin from what I know seems people have better luck with Winchester hornet brass and annealing.

 

[CUTTER1]

PPU brass is hard and thick and doesn't fireform well, tried it in 25-06 to an AI, 243 to make 224DJ and 30-06 to make 6.5x06AI. Tried annealing it without any success. Almost any other brass works better! The
K-Hornet is especially hard case to form for some reason. I tried in a TC Contender and I couldn't make it work. Then I rebarreled a CZ I bought used (it ain't pretty but it's a tachdriver) in K-Hornet and use either Hornady or W-W brass which works perfect necking up to 6mm then back in the K-Hornet die with a little false shoulder and a 11.2 GR of H110 with 40gr V-Max. I use that brass in the TC and CZ, now intend to rebarrel a Ruger Hornet to a K-Hornet.

 

[jimirwin]

All week I loaded 22 Hornet brass with the hopes of fire-forming them into 22 K-Hornet brass. From what I had gathered online, when fire-forming, you use a starting or medium load in the manual and you should be good to go which makes sense to me because I've fire-formed 50 rounds with factory Hornady ammo.

So (in my infinite wisdom) I loaded 300 rounds of 22 Hornet with 40gr Nosler Varmageddon and 40gr Hornady V-Max bullets over 10gr of H110. At the range yesterday I tried three of each load and all six split the cases. So I know this weekend I'm going to be disassembling 294 cases of 22 Hornet but my question is where did I go wrong? Did I use too much powder or do I need to use a slower (or faster) powder to fire-form? I tried the cream-o-wheat method last summer and ended up just wasting primers and I have successfully fireformed 50 rounds of K-hornet using factory loaded Hornady ammunition so when I was splitting cases with a medium load from the Hornady manual I was more than surprised so I'm finally waving the white flag and admitting I need help.

H110 (same as WW296 are HOT magnum powders (best for 357 and 44 mag) also used for 30 carbine and .410 shotshell loading. Manufacturer's advice says to NOT use more or less powder as it can detonate rather than burn progressively.

For goodness sakes, folks, we MUST read any/all warnings and take heed!
FWIW . I typically use 5 grns or so Unique or Bullseye under cornmeal or Cream Of Wheat for fireforming...with no bullet! Maybe a small bit of toilet paper to hold it in lace against the primer.