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Experience with H414 for 3006
- Thread starter WhiteOak
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
frequent misser
Well-Known Member
I haven't loaded it in an 06 but I have in my 300 wsm. It has been a very accurate powder for me with a burn rate similar to 4350. It is temperature sensitive though. If you are only range shooting you may love it. If you are looking for a hunting load you will be disappointed at some point.
morcey2
Well-Known Member
I've worked up some loads with it using 165 gr BTSP and CCI 250 (large rifle magnum) primers. It is very accurate, but it's too temperature sensitive for me. I don't have the exact numbers but I lost close to 100 fps between the initial load development, done in late June when the temp was around 90*, and later pre-season testing. That was done in the early october when the temps were anywhere between 30* and the mid 50s. POI shifted less than 2" (lower) at 200 yards, but enough to cause concern.
If you're going to be shooting at a consistent temperature, it's a great powder. If not, H4350 is the one to get. I've found a couple of pounds of it over the last several months so that's what I'm using instead.
IMR-4064 is available just about everywhere out here right now in both 1 lb and 8 lb containers. It's my go-to powder in most of my current rifle loads. It's somewhat temp sensitive, but no where near what H414 is. That will probably be available soon, depending on where you are.
Matt
If you're going to be shooting at a consistent temperature, it's a great powder. If not, H4350 is the one to get. I've found a couple of pounds of it over the last several months so that's what I'm using instead.
IMR-4064 is available just about everywhere out here right now in both 1 lb and 8 lb containers. It's my go-to powder in most of my current rifle loads. It's somewhat temp sensitive, but no where near what H414 is. That will probably be available soon, depending on where you are.
Matt
DocDoc
Well-Known Member
Temperature sensitivity means a shift in point of impact with temperature. Or you can work up to max at low temperature and get a blown primer on a hot summer day.
petasucks
Well-Known Member
the 414 is not gonna make you a happy man. the 4064 is good both in gas guns and bolts, there are stores in central va that have it on the shelves if you are anywhere close.
Thanks guys , I'll be getting the better powders when it comes available.
I don't plan on shooting / loading during the summer months .
Deer season temps. for me are from 60 -18* F here in the south.
I want to work up some scirocco and nosler loads, but I want to use nosler cases and their suggested primers.
Any suggestions besides ( work up slow )
I'll definitely work up to it.
Thanks guys.
I don't plan on shooting / loading during the summer months .
Deer season temps. for me are from 60 -18* F here in the south.
I want to work up some scirocco and nosler loads, but I want to use nosler cases and their suggested primers.
Any suggestions besides ( work up slow )
I'll definitely work up to it.
Thanks guys.
Joshuak12
Well-Known Member
I have loaded Sciroccos on 414 for my .30-06 for the last 3 years. While it is temp sensitive, in my experience it still is a good powder in terms of being able to produce consistent velocities under consistent conditions. I've used it on the range and in the field. I've not used it in long range situations and probably won't but I have taken several deer under 200 yards without any problem. So my thoughts are that it is not the best thing you can get but it is not worthless either. Just know what it does in different temp ranges, which is something we should all do for any powder we're burning.
Thanks Josh,
I like the factory sciroccos 150 gr. , their seating depth in my rifle is somewhere in the .090 " , I say that because their ammo and everyone else's are inconsistent in seating depth.
They group well and when I sighted in with them I used the ones that were crimped below the cannelure groove.
I pulled one apart and noticed that they use a spherical powder, I know that factory powders and hand load powder are different, but it looks like h 414 .
So what components do you use for your swift loads ? Give me the breakdown.
What POI differences in temp swing under 200 yards ? My hunting is in this range.
I have Swifts manual # 2.
Thank you !
I like the factory sciroccos 150 gr. , their seating depth in my rifle is somewhere in the .090 " , I say that because their ammo and everyone else's are inconsistent in seating depth.
They group well and when I sighted in with them I used the ones that were crimped below the cannelure groove.
I pulled one apart and noticed that they use a spherical powder, I know that factory powders and hand load powder are different, but it looks like h 414 .
So what components do you use for your swift loads ? Give me the breakdown.
What POI differences in temp swing under 200 yards ? My hunting is in this range.
I have Swifts manual # 2.
Thank you !
Joshuak12
Well-Known Member
I bought 150 gr Sciroccos when I started handloading with a Lee Loader kit for my old 1917 Enfield. I didn't know much. In the years since then I have tried to refine my techniques while improving my equipment. I have read and researched voraciously. I still have a lot to learn but am glad to share what I have learned so far.
To date my best H414 loads have been with Hornady brass, Winchester primers, seating to the lands. I am shooting a Thompson Center Venture that I did some stock work and a bedding job on. I do intend to invest in Lapua brass down the line and I have no complaints about the Winchester brass that I have used, but so far Hornady has an edge among the brands I have tried.
I have only loaded the 150 gr Sciroccos so far but am eager to try the 180s. They shoot consistently and terminal performance has left nothing to be desired. This is untested theory on my part but based on the experience of others I believe the Sciroccos are probably a little on the tough side if you ever intend to stretch out past 400 yards at '06 speeds. Closer than that I think they are money. And if I were sure of my POI past 400 I'd use them. I'm just not there yet as a shooter.
As for H414, even though it is temp sensitive, it is one of the more versatile powders out there. You can find book listings for it in the '06 for bullet weights from 120gr to 250 gr, and it is in the upper end of the listed velocity spectrum in all weights.
I shot groups with loads from the same batch on a 65-70 degree day then on a 35 degree day a couple weeks later. POI had moved a couple inches but grouping was the same. I find the spherical powder very loader friendly whatever your method. The one time I've been able to shoot through a chronograph was with a batch I had loaded by volume which some people seem to find offensive. Offensive or not my extreme spread in velocity was 21 fps. I can live with that, especially when we are talking about hunting loads for normal ranges.
So far my reloading has been geared completely toward consistency so I have just been loading for about 2700 fps which is a very easy and safe velocity with 150gr bullets in an '06. This year I will start pushing my velocities up. I will keep loading H414 as well as IMR4350 and R22. I'd like to try H4350 and Superformance sometime down the line. But for this off-season the 3 I have should makefor some good experimentation.
FYI, could just be my rifle, but I am finding that Sciroccos and Amaxes group a lot alike. You can do a whole lot of practicing and load development work for not much money with Amaxes then do some tinkering with the more expensive Sciroccos once you've found a velocity/accuracy sweet spot.
To date my best H414 loads have been with Hornady brass, Winchester primers, seating to the lands. I am shooting a Thompson Center Venture that I did some stock work and a bedding job on. I do intend to invest in Lapua brass down the line and I have no complaints about the Winchester brass that I have used, but so far Hornady has an edge among the brands I have tried.
I have only loaded the 150 gr Sciroccos so far but am eager to try the 180s. They shoot consistently and terminal performance has left nothing to be desired. This is untested theory on my part but based on the experience of others I believe the Sciroccos are probably a little on the tough side if you ever intend to stretch out past 400 yards at '06 speeds. Closer than that I think they are money. And if I were sure of my POI past 400 I'd use them. I'm just not there yet as a shooter.
As for H414, even though it is temp sensitive, it is one of the more versatile powders out there. You can find book listings for it in the '06 for bullet weights from 120gr to 250 gr, and it is in the upper end of the listed velocity spectrum in all weights.
I shot groups with loads from the same batch on a 65-70 degree day then on a 35 degree day a couple weeks later. POI had moved a couple inches but grouping was the same. I find the spherical powder very loader friendly whatever your method. The one time I've been able to shoot through a chronograph was with a batch I had loaded by volume which some people seem to find offensive. Offensive or not my extreme spread in velocity was 21 fps. I can live with that, especially when we are talking about hunting loads for normal ranges.
So far my reloading has been geared completely toward consistency so I have just been loading for about 2700 fps which is a very easy and safe velocity with 150gr bullets in an '06. This year I will start pushing my velocities up. I will keep loading H414 as well as IMR4350 and R22. I'd like to try H4350 and Superformance sometime down the line. But for this off-season the 3 I have should makefor some good experimentation.
FYI, could just be my rifle, but I am finding that Sciroccos and Amaxes group a lot alike. You can do a whole lot of practicing and load development work for not much money with Amaxes then do some tinkering with the more expensive Sciroccos once you've found a velocity/accuracy sweet spot.
Thanks Josh , I don't know what swift is doing but , I like them.
Their sciroccos Carry more energy than the typical 150 gr. cup & core.
They say min. 1700 fps for the tip to peel back , that is still 1,000 + lbs of energy at 400 yards.
I took a doe at 80 yards in the shoulder and it left a baseball size hole in the other one, it hit the forward shoulder bone going out.
It's a little much, but if it were a big buck hot rodded on testosterone, he could run and I would have blood to follow.
You didn't say what size groups .
I don't plan on shooting in the summer months , so I take it that when I work up a load in the winter , then there will be no concern with POI as long as I can get some good groups ?
Their sciroccos Carry more energy than the typical 150 gr. cup & core.
They say min. 1700 fps for the tip to peel back , that is still 1,000 + lbs of energy at 400 yards.
I took a doe at 80 yards in the shoulder and it left a baseball size hole in the other one, it hit the forward shoulder bone going out.
It's a little much, but if it were a big buck hot rodded on testosterone, he could run and I would have blood to follow.
You didn't say what size groups .
I don't plan on shooting in the summer months , so I take it that when I work up a load in the winter , then there will be no concern with POI as long as I can get some good groups ?
Joshuak12
Well-Known Member
My groups were nothing special - at or just below MOA.
My hunting experiences with the Swift bullets are that they are accurate enough for me to take that high neck shot if it's there, which negates tracking, and when a body shot is called for they provide a nice balance of reliable expansion and solid weight retention. If we were just talking about terminal performance on game the Scirocco is easily my favorite of the bonded, high ballistic coefficient bullets that I've shot.
As long as you are not hunting at extreme ranges and you're not doing load work in high temps, then hunting in much colder temps, I think you'll do fine with H414. As has been stated, there are more temperature stable powders available. But my experience says you'll still be able to shoot good groups on a 25 degree day. The groups won't be exactly in the same place they would be on a 70 degree day, but they'll still be good groups. Even a little range work on days of differing temperatures will show you exactly what to expect.
I have not seen the Swift manual - what do they list as minimum and maximum loads for H414 with the 150 gr. bullet?
My hunting experiences with the Swift bullets are that they are accurate enough for me to take that high neck shot if it's there, which negates tracking, and when a body shot is called for they provide a nice balance of reliable expansion and solid weight retention. If we were just talking about terminal performance on game the Scirocco is easily my favorite of the bonded, high ballistic coefficient bullets that I've shot.
As long as you are not hunting at extreme ranges and you're not doing load work in high temps, then hunting in much colder temps, I think you'll do fine with H414. As has been stated, there are more temperature stable powders available. But my experience says you'll still be able to shoot good groups on a 25 degree day. The groups won't be exactly in the same place they would be on a 70 degree day, but they'll still be good groups. Even a little range work on days of differing temperatures will show you exactly what to expect.
I have not seen the Swift manual - what do they list as minimum and maximum loads for H414 with the 150 gr. bullet?
Josh ,
Swift manual # 2. 3006 150 gr. Scirocco
Starting load
H 414. 52.5. Vel. 2736 fps.
Max load. 56.5. Vel. 2955 fps. @ 95 % volume .
Fed. 210 primer. 24" barrel. 1-10 twist
Fed. Case.
2750 fps. Muzzle vel. /@ 500 yards it would be 1799 fps. With 1079 ft lbs of smack down !
Nosler with their data shows ,
W 760. Start load - 53 gr.@ 2682 muz.
55.0 gr @ 2797. 57.0 gr max @ 2912.
With Nosler case / WRL primer
Accubonds and ballistic tip bullets. 150 gr.
I have read w 760 is the same as H 414.
Swift manual # 2. 3006 150 gr. Scirocco
Starting load
H 414. 52.5. Vel. 2736 fps.
Max load. 56.5. Vel. 2955 fps. @ 95 % volume .
Fed. 210 primer. 24" barrel. 1-10 twist
Fed. Case.
2750 fps. Muzzle vel. /@ 500 yards it would be 1799 fps. With 1079 ft lbs of smack down !
Nosler with their data shows ,
W 760. Start load - 53 gr.@ 2682 muz.
55.0 gr @ 2797. 57.0 gr max @ 2912.
With Nosler case / WRL primer
Accubonds and ballistic tip bullets. 150 gr.
I have read w 760 is the same as H 414.
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