does an improved case really improve

Draw a line on the shoulders of a case, where do the lines intersect? Some lines will intersect way out in the throat, while some intersect back in the case neck. PO Ackley referred to these intersecting lines as the "interference point" stating that when the Interference Point is back in the rear of the neck, this is where a lot of converging gasses and powder is "Blasted". As the interference point is moved back in neck vs being out in the throat, throat(barrel life) increases.

Years ago, I shot tens of thousands of p. dogs. 1000-1200 rounds of centerfire per day was the norm. We put a lot of wear on barrels. We started playing with Ackley Improved chambers back then, along with which powders reduced throat wear and which powder ate up barrels.

First thing we learned was that the 243 Winchester at up barrels at a much faster rate than the 6mm Remington, shooting the same powder, with slightly more powder in the 6 Remington, and shooting the same 85g Sierra bthp.

Recently, I wanted to try another experiment. I was forming 6 XC cases from lapua 308 Palma brass with the small primer pocket. When formed, the neck on the case was .400 long. I ordered a neck reamer, already had uni-throater. I cut the neck in the chamber to .410 to allow for a .400 long neck, then throated it .147 to shoot the 107g Sierra match king and the 105g Berger vld hunting.

900 rounds later, I only had .007 leade growth...nothing short of amazing shooting 400 rounds with R#17 and the balance with H4350. Accuracy was some of the best that I had ever shot in my life, and I shot registered Benchrest for a while.

So, my conclusion on this single example was that with a longer neck, interference point way back in the back of the neck, barrel life was greatly increased. I put 900 rounds on 30 of the Lapua cases of which I am still shooting 13 of those cases. I found an accuracy node with the 105g Bergers at 3250 on that 31" 8T barrel, but realized that I was killing my brass with that load after 5 firings with the R#17 at 3250.

The 6 Remington and the 6 XC have very long necks compared to many other cartridges without alteration, and I would consider the longer necks a plus.
 
Throat erosion bring up another point on how am I going to load length to? This isn't knowledge I have nor used so far, but info from another source (don't remember where). He measured what coal was and shot "X" number of times, remeasured and repeated. In conclusion the throat had less erosion when seated further from the lands.
 
Pressure rises slightly when seated very close to the lands, this is true. To say that it adds to throat erosion is less with the bullet jumping to me is one heck of a stretch, lots of things involved that contribute to throat erosion.

Consulting a Heat Index chart to see how your powder rates is a Huge issue in throat erosion. The Heat Index chart is different from the burning rate chart. Check out the Heat index of AA2700 vs H4350, AA2460 vs Varget.

I am chasing accuracy first and foremost.
 
As we all know the faster the burn the less you can fill a case and vise versa for slower powder. Faster will burn more inside the case, because there's more room/available space. But seating it out further will give more room for the slower powders, thus pushing it closer to throat. Choosing propane over natural gas for longer barrels is less efficient.
 
Improved cases are just way sexier.
.250 AI
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6.5SLR
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.300 Norma Mag Imp 33*
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.260AI
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6.5SS
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6.5PRC/SI
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A 260AI is a great example of improvement over a parent design.
The 260 is lethargic as under capacity for 140gr bullets. Ackley improvement takes you to perfect capacity for this.
You could go up to 6.5x284 or larger cases, but YOU WILL find lower efficiency and lower barrel life with this. Most people end up downloading the 6.5x284 to a point no better than a 260AI, while burning way more powder.

The way to see thjs stuff is to build a table, even if mental, of all cartridge design attributes (incl pros/cons) and rank them in comparison.
With this, it could be that there are situations where Ackley improvement is not a gain for you (or maybe anyone) (overall).
I imagine it would be easy for me to conclude that a 264wm AI makes an already extreme/bad design -even worse.
But for any caliber, I'm sure there is a better capacity cartridge for it that can be improved, leading to gains.
 
i got into AIs to one up my best shooting buddy. I told him I planned on having a 257 Rob't pistol barrel built for my TC encore. Life interceded and I did not place the order. Fast forward three months and my buddy shows up at the range with a 15" 257 Rob't barrel on his encore. Friendly rivalries being what they are, I started researching ways to one up him and ordered a 250 Savage AI. Fast forward another three months to a range session where I smoked his 257. As he was telling me that all the fire forming was too much for him, a light went on over his head and he asked if I went that route just to one up him. I just smiled. I have had a bunch since then and never regretted a single one.
 
A 260AI is a great example of improvement over a parent design.
The 260 is lethargic as under capacity for 140gr bullets. Ackley improvement takes you to perfect capacity for this.
You could go up to 6.5x284 or larger cases, but YOU WILL find lower efficiency and lower barrel life with this. Most people end up downloading the 6.5x284 to a point no better than a 260AI, while burning way more powder.

The way to see thjs stuff is to build a table, even if mental, of all cartridge design attributes (incl pros/cons) and rank them in comparison.
With this, it could be that there are situations where Ackley improvement is not a gain for you (or maybe anyone) (overall).
I imagine it would be easy for me to conclude that a 264wm AI makes an already extreme/bad design -even worse.
But for any caliber, I'm sure there is a better capacity cartridge for it that can be improved, leading to gains.
Don't be talking bad about my 264wm......it might not be a perfect design, but it's efficient for me as it is. With steep shoulders and almost no shoulder length it seems a waste on some improved designs. When a higher angle decreases shoulder length/space you lose capacity without lengthing the body. This is a reason the 260 out performs the 6.5creed even with lower pressure. Granted you'll need to throat it so the tail is in the shoulder that more in the body. This doesn't just apply to Ackley, but all so-called improved cases. Now take a fatter case increase decrease the angle and you have more capacity in the shoulder. Well you also have barrel burner like the wssm cases in 22cal. Maybe the 26 and larger cals would be a better suit for the wssm case?
 
Cases with a lot of taper, have brass flow forward into the neck. Full-length sizing makes the brass flow forward also. 26* shoulder angles also help brass flow forward.

I shoot what is accurate at a distance, and this is often not attainable if you throttle back a load. Tune a load for accuracy, buy brass when necessary.

Get what you may need for a while, looks like war is looming.
 
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A 260AI is a great example of improvement over a parent design.
The 260 is lethargic as under capacity for 140gr bullets. Ackley improvement takes you to perfect capacity for this.
I have a Savage LRH just waiting for an AI reamer. I just hope it shoots as accurately as an AI as it does the .260. I expect, and hope, it will.
 
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