Does A Can or Suppresor Increase Back Pressure and Decrease Velocity??? Well????

The forum is "long range hunting" not precision target shooting. Similar but most certainly not the same topic, hunters don't use CNC machined solid projectiles is perhaps one example. The original past was suppressor's impacting velocities?? The consensus was no they don't to any discernible effect. Where I reside suppressed rifles are the norm the vast majority of hunters use them. Including Thar and Chamois hunting at long range. So the initial query was asked and answered, somehow we're now well into the semantics and minutiae, certainly well away from the original and quite simple question.
 
The forum is "long range hunting" not precision target shooting. Similar but most certainly not the same topic, hunters don't use CNC machined solid projectiles is perhaps one example.
Sorry buddy, try again:

What's next, "real" hunters don't use monos?
 
Again I may be slightly off on my physics, but I can't see how pressure at the muzzle could ever be greater than in the chamber unless the muzzle was 100% obstructed.

I would think pressure would be relatively equal from chamber to where ever the base of the bullet inside the barrel is. Pressure would change as bullet is farther from its starting point, but it would be uniform in that space.
Once the projectile fully engages with the rifling we have around 4,000 atm of pressure. It would reduce ever so slightly by the time it leaves the barrel. Say to 3880 atm estimating the barrel volume, a 0.5% reduction in absolute pressure. My take on that point, explosive gas velocity is around 1000 M/sec so the projectile would fully engage the rifling with an assumed 0.040" of jump in a millionth of a second?
 
Sorry buddy, try again:

What's next, "real" hunters don't use monos?
Most 'hunters' use off the shelf components and watch their costs. Those using CNC machined projectiles aren't the norm, also no matter how the projectile is manufactured the QA process needs to be flawless. Plenty of garbage gets produced on the most expensive and accurate machining centres LOL that's something that I know all about unfortunately.
The average F1 team spends US$50 mio PA on aerodynamic studies so I don't doubt the science. In the real world taking a shot at game over long distance there probably innumerable other genuine concerns for the hunter other than having the ultimate projectile, just saying. A tired and stressed hunter is far more inaccurate than someone who's relaxed and shooting off a bench.
There's theory and the cold hard reality out in the field, literally a world of difference.
 
The forum is "long range hunting" not precision target shooting. Similar but most certainly not the same topic, hunters don't use CNC machined solid projectiles is perhaps one example. The original past was suppressor's impacting velocities?? The consensus was no they don't to any discernible effect. Where I reside suppressed rifles are the norm the vast majority of hunters use them. Including Thar and Chamois hunting at long range. So the initial query was asked and answered, somehow we're now well into the semantics and minutiae, certainly well away from the original and quite simple question.
That's how many threads evolve and a lot of good ideas and information then get exchanged above and beyond whatever questions have already been answered.
 
Sorry buddy, try again:

What's next, "real" hunters don't use monos?
Those aren't solids. This is a solid.

1644730313083.png


They are generally reserved for only the toughest and most dangerous game like Cape buffalo, Rhino, Hippo, and Elephant in Africa or Brown/Grizzlies in N. America.

We shoot expanding mono's or mono's designed to shed petals for game in the US like the Peregrine VLR4 or Steve's Hammers.
 
Most 'hunters' use off the shelf components and watch their costs. Those using CNC machined projectiles aren't the norm, also no matter how the projectile is manufactured the QA process needs to be flawless. Plenty of garbage gets produced on the most expensive and accurate machining centres LOL that's something that I know all about unfortunately.
The average F1 team spends US$50 mio PA on aerodynamic studies so I don't doubt the science. In the real world taking a shot at game over long distance there probably innumerable other genuine concerns for the hunter other than having the ultimate projectile, just saying. A tired and stressed hunter is far more inaccurate than someone who's relaxed and shooting off a bench.
There's theory and the cold hard reality out in the field, literally a world of difference.
"Most hunters" in the US won't ever take a shot over 100-200yds on game and won't ever buy anything but off the shelf factory ammo.

We're not those guys here. We're they guys who sweat and fret trying to get a sub half MOA group that will hold out to a thousand yards or more and can have "discussions" as to the best performing bullet for any given application or distance that might last 20-50 or even a hundred or more posts.

You'll find that most of the regular contributors to this forum have on average over 30 years long range hunting and shooting experience as well.

Len gives us a forum where we can share that accumulated knowledge to build and grow the sport and help those with less experience avoid the painful and often expensive mistakes we've made over those decades.
 
It's been my experience that a suppressor will slightly increase velocity and also shrink groups slightly. Alternately, brakes reduce velocity slightly, and greatly increase noise volume at the firing line! Many ranges no longer allow brakes to be used there, for hearing safety reasons!
 
It's been my experience that a suppressor will slightly increase velocity and also shrink groups slightly. Alternately, brakes reduce velocity slightly, and greatly increase noise volume at the firing line! Many ranges no longer allow brakes to be used there, for hearing safety reasons!
Seriously, on the shooting range they are not allowing brakes due to hearing safety? The one and only shooting range I ever been to would not allow you to enter without hearing protection and those were ear muffs only, if wearing hearing protection you should not be concerned about hearing loss with a brake. I shoot my 28 Nosler with a brake and foam ear buds, it doesn't hurt my ears even with those buds. I would think it would be the concussion from the brake is why they would not allow it, someone in the next booth could feel the concussion hitting them. I am just glad I do not have to worry about having to go to a shooting range.
 
It's been my experience that a suppressor will slightly increase velocity and also shrink groups slightly. Alternately, brakes reduce velocity slightly, and greatly increase noise volume at the firing line! Many ranges no longer allow brakes to be used there, for hearing safety reasons!
A brake could reduce group size because of the extra weight and how the bbl. harmonics are reduced but in general especially on the large magnums above .30 cal
all the way to .50 cal, I think more group size reduction results from the shooter being able to cope with the recoil, ie, the flinch factor. So a brake may work both ways I suppose. A can might add weight in the same way too. Both will shift POI due to harmonics.

A big .50 with a brake will shake the whole shooting line where I go to shoot. Its a covered shed open on one side down range. It shakes the whole building. Hearing protection cant hardly keep you from flinching when that thing goes off. It sure dont help your group sizes either...

So a brake can actually increase group sizes for the shooters next to it.....🙂

There are building and shed and firing line harmonics due to the blast shock wave from that big .50
 
My understanding is that suppressors don't increase pressure (noticably), but they make the peak pressure bleed off slowly. So pressure stays high in the barrel longer. That can cause gas guns to need an adjustable gas block (or equivalent for guns other than ARs).

In my readings occasionally suppressors lower velocity. Maybe that was more common for pistols? Can't remember.

I have a chrony and a suppressor, but haven't gotten much range time lately... sad
 
Those aren't solids. This is a solid.
Cutting Edge does makes solids, quite a few of them. Their ESP Safari Raptor line specifically comes with optional tips can be shot as solid, hollow point, or tipped. "Solids" as he used it isn't the correct term for mono. Not all the high BC target monos are solids (Berger's are), many have some form of a hollow point, not in the "initiating expansion" form but similar to the Sierra HPBT model with a minimized yet open meplat tip.

I shoot my 28 Nosler with a brake and foam ear buds, it doesn't hurt my ears even with those buds. I would think it would be the concussion from the brake is why they would not allow it, someone in the next booth could feel the concussion hitting them.
That "concussion" is sound that is so far above a hearing safe level that it can be damaging even wearing double ear pro. The shooter is protected by the baffle angle of the brake and sits in a pocket where sound levels aren't increased as much.
 
"Most hunters" in the US won't ever take a shot over 100-200yds on game and won't ever buy anything but off the shelf factory ammo.

We're not those guys here. We're they guys who sweat and fret trying to get a sub half MOA group that will hold out to a thousand yards or more and can have "discussions" as to the best performing bullet for any given application or distance that might last 20-50 or even a hundred or more posts.

You'll find that most of the regular contributors to this forum have on average over 30 years long range hunting and shooting experience as well.

Len gives us a forum where we can share that accumulated knowledge to build and grow the sport and help those with less experience avoid the painful and often expensive mistakes we've made over those decades.
You didn't actually address a single point I had raised? Also like most people on this forum I have been hunting, reloading and building rifles for decades. The expert hunters I have spent my time with were never the best range shooters, but they never failed to bring home game. There's a myriad of factors involved with hunting animals humanly at longer ranges and where say a rifle that's shooting 1/4 MOA consistently probably isn't the #1 criteria.

351E2B41-8C87-4B97-84D4-C9A7A8F326AE.jpeg
 
Your points are your opinions about what other people do, not facts that need to be countered. But since your logic is fundamentally flawed, let's play.

Most 'hunters' use off the shelf components and watch their costs.
Many real hunters also use projectiles that that are not off the shelf and don't watch their costs. Many of us subscribe to the theory of "why would you go cheap on the one thing that actually touches the animal?" Your strawman don't hunt. (That's an American idiom saying your explanation is fundamentally flawed. Punny because it used "hunt" but not in the context of actually hunting. I crack myself up.)

Those using CNC machined projectiles aren't the norm,
Monolithic bullets are very normal and are mandated for use in enough places that mono-only companies have grown to fill that need. Again, you're making assumptions based on where you are and are not considering that we're aren't there with you.

also no matter how the projectile is manufactured the QA process needs to be flawless. Plenty of garbage gets produced on the most expensive and accurate machining centres LOL that's something that I know all about unfortunately.
That's nice, but your logic is flawed when applied to Cutting Edge, Hammer, Makers, and Berger. Their QC has been proven to be excellent, and their customer service likewise. Your overly broad statement is correct, but not in relation to the specific manufacturers you were shown and are rebutting. If you doubt this, I bet you $50 that if you call Hammer and ask for Steve, he'll assuage your fears that monolithic hunting bullets aren't a niche fad, and that there is physiological evidence from hunted animals supporting that his bullet design is better at inducing exsanguination than traditional cup-and-core bullets that mushroom.

In the real world taking a shot at game over long distance there probably innumerable other genuine concerns for the hunter other than having the ultimate projectile, just saying.
Completely disagree, at long distance the terminal performance of the bullet is paramount, and is quite literally the only concern. Significantly more important than shorter range hunting where retained energy will cover for poor bullet performance differently than low energy long range shots. What the bullet does is of primary importance, how it gets there is secondary because if it doesn't get there that's an immeasurably better answer than it gets there and wastes a harvestable animal.

A tired and stressed hunter is far more inaccurate than someone who's relaxed and shooting off a bench.
Correct, but again overly broad. What tired and stressed hunter will ever perform better than he can in controlled situations? Not necessarily shooting from the bench (which is disingenuous of you, as I and many other shoot off the ground whether hunting or competing), but if their fundamentals and equipment haven't been proven to work before they're in the field, what level of confidence can they have? When I take a shot at an animal, I've literally made longer and harder shots hundreds of times, specifically to overcome the stress and fatigue I'm feeling at the time. Training is a fundamental aspect of hunting.

There's a myriad of factors involved with hunting animals humanly at longer ranges and where say a rifle that's shooting 1/4 MOA consistently probably isn't the #1 criteria.
Again, overly broad, but pairs with a specifically narrow fallacy. Confidence in ability and ALL equipment is fundamental to the mindset required to perform at the level required to make long distance shots. A rifle capable of making the shot is just as important as wind reading skills, an appropriately selected caliber, the shooting ability to manage recoil, woodcraft, and the dozen other things that come together. Maybe not #1 ahead of things like "will I have a heart attack hiking in" or "am I dressed well enough to not freeze to death setting up for the shot", but a rifle that shoots well is an inarguably important piece of equipment in the sport of long range hunting.

As for being specifically narrow, 1/4 MOA is an accuracy description you introduced that you're trying to use to knock down a strawman that heretofore hasn't been raised. We didn't say that 1/4 MOA was the required accuracy, you did. My opinion would be a rifle no less capable than the shooter, but if the shooter is consistently capable of exceeding 1/4 MOA accuracy, then yes a commensurate rifle would be an important criterion.

There's theory and the cold hard reality out in the field, literally a world of difference.
And your conjectures are nothing more than your opinions of what is best in your world. You're in a technical section of a forum that is not populated by average hunters or shooters, complaining that the nitpicking doesn't apply to you. Please disregard and move on then. Or if you're here to play, pull out something better than your opinions and fallacies. Hopefully you have something meaningful to offer because people here are surprisingly receptive to non-canonical thought. Hence Veteran here pushing the logic and determinative boundary on suppressed shooting.
 
Last edited:

Recent Posts

Top