do you guys have any ideas about my results?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by jkupper, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. jkupper

    jkupper Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so long story short I have been testing loads of 168gr VLD's and H-1000 for my 7mm RM. I found two great loads, one shoots .25 MOA and one shoots just under .5 MOA. Neither load has the velocity that I would like to get and both were less than max loads according to the Berger manual.

    So, I had already tested the max load at .020" off the lands and it shot about 1 MOA at 100 yards. I then loaded up another series to test, this time at .040", .060", .080", .100", and .120" off of the lands. I shot these this past weekend and was a little disheartened by the results. the size of my groups did not really increase or decrease. The groups pretty much stayed the same throughout the series.

    Does anyone have any possible explanations or ideas? Would it be worthwhile to go back and try .010", .030", .050", .070", .090", and .110" off the lands? I will say that I do not want to try the bullet in the lands as hunting is going to be the primary use for these loads.

    I am glad that I have found the two loads that I did, and I will use them if needs be, but I would like to get my RM shooting as flat as possible with the same .25-.5 MOA results. Thanks for the help in advance!

    Joe
     
  2. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    Max overall that still fit and feed A-OK from the magazine. Then crank it up to get the velocity you are hoping for, all the while checking back on the accuracy
     
  3. idaho elk hunter

    idaho elk hunter Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like to me that you are shooting a factory barrel. Many get into this problem when they are trying to shoot a specific type of bullet. If you are not throated and tuned to shoot the INTERNET famous vld design they all will shoot about the same no matter what you do. This bullet does not like freebore or any jump and in fact the ogive needs to be matched to the rifling lands to be holding the bullet secure before it is fired. Most people will tell you they have to be into the lands!. I can tell you if you have a 1 in 9 twist barrel you will shoot the heavy bullets if you have a Savage or any other rifle that runs a 1 in 9 1/2 twist then you should run the 140 gr. If your rifle is freebored then try the Barnes Lrx or Hornady GMX. These harder bullets will shoot in freebored rifles better than any other design or make of bullet. This is a very short compressed version of what is happening. If this does not work let me know and we can talk on the phone to get more specific. I build certain very specific calibers and Weatherbys for fun because retirement sucks. The 7mm is one of my all time favorites and have never seen one that I can not get to shoot under 1/2.
     
  4. Joe King

    Joe King Well-Known Member

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    You can also try the Classic Hunter, or the 180gr Hybrid. Both shoot very well in my 7mag with 1in10 twist. Oddly though the 180 load is almost 100fps faster at 3020fps
     
  5. old_heli_logger

    old_heli_logger Well-Known Member

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    I've had most of my accuracy luck with my bullet seated 0.010" off the lands...try it if it will still fit in your magazine.
    Good luck!
     
  6. PowellSixO

    PowellSixO Well-Known Member

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    Try seating the bullets to where they just touch the lands. I have absolutely no problems ejecting a round with my loads. Here's what I have worked up and I've been getting great results with good velocities:
    168 VLD seated to lands
    69.6 grains H1000
    Remington Brass
    WLRM Primers
    Getting 3024 fps
    Went out Sunday and got my best 5 shot group yet at .560". I'm shooting off a bench with sand bags as my rest. If I had a led sled or similar setup I might actually hit that elusive .5" group!!! Hehe. Good luck!

    Edit: This is shooting out of a Savage 111 Trophy Hunter XP with a 24" barrel. I was lucky with this rifle considering the magazine allows me to have the bullets touching the lands and plenty of room to spare. Well maybe not pletny of room, but just enough. :)
     
  7. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    I have had excellent luck with VLD's in all my calibers seated to all different depths. My .308 loves the 210 VLD's seated pressed into the lands, and it shoots the 168 VLD's just fine seated to spec. I guess being a .308 it is very forgiving.

    My 7STW, being the wildcat that it is, I have found to be alot easier to load for than I had originally anticipated. It seems to be forgiving as well. It really loves the 180 VLD's loaded up touching the lands. The 168's, too.

    Both my .308 and 7STW are both Rem 700's with factory barrels, and they have been very forgiving to reload for.

    My Browning A-Bolt 7RM has taken some tuning.....I have it down pretty good with the 168 VLD's, and am finalizing on that stage now. I am also starting to work a load with the 180 VLD's.

    My Weatherby AccuMark .257 Wby has freebore, and it shoots the 110 AccuBonds, and 115 VLD's very well when seated to maximum mag length.

    Maybe I got some nonchalant rifles, but for some reason they don't seem to be too picky with my reloads or the VLD bullets seated at different depths...
     
  8. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I have to call BS here. You have posted this too many times, I can't agree and go on. This is am old wivestail and simply not true. I have loaded 100's of VLD's with freebore ( Weatherby's, and RUMS) and seating depths off the lands -.100" plus in many custom chambered rifles. No problem with load development, 1/2 moa or better to 1000 plus yards.

    Your experience may differ but your statements are not true for all rifles and shooters.

    Respectfully.

    Jeff
     
  9. moombaskier

    moombaskier Well-Known Member

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    What's the velocity with your accurate loads? What make of rifle? Did you have any pressure signs at the "max" loads. Many times there is another accuracy "node" near the higher end. If you know what pressure signs are, try loading up your accurate seating depth. FWIW ALL the rifles my buddies and shoot the VLD's out of custom and factory ALL have at least .010 jump.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  10. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Good advice here!

    Jeff
     
  11. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the input Jeff. I was starting to wonder if I got a couple of freak-rifles that just happened to really like the VLD's no matter how they were seated...This helps explain my good experiences with the "internet famous" VLD's. By him stating that comment about them being "internet famous" I could tell he has disdain for them from the beginning and that his post would be biased.

    This is good info Jeff.

    Just so I don't sound 1-sided....I have also had excellent experiences with the Nosler AccuBonds.
     
  12. jkupper

    jkupper Well-Known Member

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    I have not had a chance yet to put my two accurate loads through the chrony, so I can't give an answer on the velocities, but my guess would be around 2750-2800 fps. The gun is a stock Remington 700 with a 26 inch barrel. I can seat the bullet all the way to the lands without magazine issues. I haven't tried it, but I have checked it with an OAL guage. I was not having any trouble with pressure using H-1000, though I did start to show some signs of pressure with Retumbo at max.

    Sooo, maybe I will try to work up from max a little bit and shoot some more groups at .020" off the lands

    Also, Broz, and others in this post, have told me to try the 180 gr. Hybrids. I haven't found any yet, but I will have to give them a try as well.

    What would be safe increments to move up from max load, .2 grains at a time?

    Thank you all for your help!

    Joe

    One other question that may seem silly, but I have been wondering about it for a while. Does SMK stand for Sierra Match King? Thanks again!
     
  13. moombaskier

    moombaskier Well-Known Member

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    Most of the factory Rem 700's in the 7 mag will seat bullets to the lands and still fit in the magazine, so you are good to go there. I have helped develop loads for 6 of them and found them all to be within .035" of each other. I have also found that they all liked them seated at .010" off the lands. They all also shot best at or near max pressure, so if you know what to look for in pressure signs go ahead and do some more testing at .5 grain increments. The one 700 7mag that I have that is stock except for the Jewel trigger, Holland QD brake, and a bedding job is shooting the 168 hunting VLD at 3035fps using Winchester brass, Fed 215m primers, and 72 grains of H1000 seated .010" off the lands. I don't know how much over max that is, but it is a full grain below extractor shine with no stiff bolt. I started that load at 66 grains and worked up and there was actually 3 good loads working up, but 72 has been the best and it shoots amazing. Just be careful and take your time. Velocity is great, but I'll take a slightly slower more accurate load everytime.
     
  14. teflonhunter

    teflonhunter Well-Known Member

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    I too call BS on Bergers not liking to jump. I am jumping them in a 308 and a 7SAUM , both long throat Remingtons with great results. I would try some other powders and see if results change. H4831 SC works real well in my 7SAUM pushing 168 Bergers and a friends 7MM Rem. pushing 160 AB's.