custom FL dies for factory rifles

[.30-06]

Can custom dies be fit for factory chambers?

They must closely match your chamber. On the subject of necks, you cannot get straight necks from a system where the neck is being sized more than .003

Understand it must match my chamber. It makes sense that a loose neck can cause bullet misalignment. But not have a custom die maker fit my chamber in the neck area ?

Whidden can't do anything about your neck...... this is why I said you're stuck with it.

I'm stuck with it ? This guy doesn't think Winchester factory rifles are not capable of having the neck area of a custom die fitted properly. Doesn't make sense does it ?

 

[shortgrass]

You are stuck with it! IF the die is made to fit the neck of the chamber more closely, you might not have any neck tension to hold the bullet. Take a cartridge that's been fired in a SAAMI/factory cut chamber, and without resizing it, see if a bullet will slip into the neck. Maybe it will, but maybe it won't. Neck tension (how much grip the cartridge case has on the bullet) has much to do with the consistency and repeatability of your reloaded ammo.

 

[.30-06]

Bullet slips in fired neck yes.

I'm hoping Whidden can do it.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Why not just get a Redding bushing die?

In a nutshell, neck od after sizing is set to give the right neck tension, period.

 

[.30-06]

I'm not concerned about tension, I take care of that with 21st's mandrels.

Well as much as I didn't agree with this guy on another forum.. he kinda made me think of something I slightly agree with, that's why I came here. He sits to high on his horse that I care for and doesn't want to talk to me anymore, high society over there. If the neck is under the chamber neck diameter then the bullet tends to not enter the rifling straight and cause unwanted vibrations.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I'm not concerned about tension, I take care of that with 21st's mandrels.

Well as much as I didn't agree with this guy on another forum.. he kinda made me think of something I slightly agree with, that's why I came here. He sits to high on his horse that I care for and doesn't want to talk to me anymore, high society over there. If the neck is under the chamber neck diameter then the bullet tends to not enter the rifling straight and cause unwanted vibrations.

I think I am misunderstanding you completely.

Can custom dies be fit for factory chambers?

yes

But not have a custom die maker fit my chamber in the neck area ?

The neck area of fl sizing dies is fitted either by honing to a dimension you specify or by a bushing you choose. Depends on die model which is done.

I'm stuck with it ? This guy doesn't think Winchester factory rifles are not capable of having the neck area of a custom die fitted properly. Doesn't make sense does it ?

You are stuck with your chamber until you rebarrel, unless you want it enlarged with a neck reamer. I don't think you want this based on the words you have posted.
My guess is the person you are speaking with is following the fitted properly model where a fired case is just large enough a bullet slides in & out. Also, it only needs sized down ~0.005" (on the diameter) to get 0.004" neck tension. Then some kind of +0.001" expander to iron out the neck inside and final set neck tension.
Factory rifles never do this because the fired neck diameter is usually like 0.01" over loaded round diameter.

Bullet slips in fired neck yes.

good

I'm not concerned about tension, I take care of that with 21st's mandrels.

If you are using a mandrel, the neck id has to start smaller than your desired id. That is all.

Making the case fit the chamber is all about neck thickness. Ideally in a hunting rig, you want the loaded round od to be 0.003" under chamber diameter.

 

[.30-06]

Ideally in a hunting rig, you want the loaded round od to be 0.003" under chamber diameter.

Shortgrass at least said maybe... it will maybe it won't. There is some possibility, and I believe that.

Not necessarily.. don't agree completely with you. As long as it chambers freely and extracts easily, it's fine. Guys who bench rest state that, and if it's works for them why shouldn't it work for me? I could go SAMMI maximum cartridge, there's no reason you can't, but we'll see what they say. I also understand brass brands/lots are different. Whenever I measure case dimensions in the four 06's fired I have measure the same with different brands of brass, with SAMMI max cartridge/min chamber is .001 difference, spring back.

 

[shortgrass]

As recommended to me by Dave Manson, during one of our conversations when I was having a custom reamer made, .003" over the neck diameter of my loaded rounds was/is considered 'acceptable' for my 6XC Varmint reamer. As bullet diameter increases, more clearance is added. These numbers are for "hunting rifles". Reducing neck clearances of loaded rounds does help accuracy, but helps even more because you're not working the brass as much. It is not uncommon to have up to .010" clearance in a factory cut chamber. If we are talking 'factory cut chamber' we are also talking factory made barrel. Neither is the equal of a custom made barrel blank chambered by a competent gunsmith. Regardless of the neck tension you end up applying to your reloads, the diameter of the chamber neck does not change. The only way to reduce that clearance would be to increase the wall thickness of the brass neck. Just my opinion after graduating from the 2yr gunsmithing program at MCC 30yrs ago. How many chambers I have cut in the past 30yrs, I've lost count! I own and have used reamers for tight necks, where the neck will be turned, tight necks where necks don't need to be turned, and reamers made to minimum SAAMI specs (what the reamer makes supply unless directed otherwise). I can't see for the life of me where a custom made die would be of any great improvement when the ammo is used in a factory cut rifle chamber. JM2Cents

 

[shortgrass]

Cast the chamber and measure the neck. That is the only way to know for certain how much clearance there is between your reloads and the neck of your chamber. Anything else is just a guess, unless you happen to have a set of pin/plug gauges.

 

[.30-06]

helps even more because you're not working the brass as much.

That's the second reason, for me.

factory made barrel. Neither is the equal of a custom made barrel blank

not comparing, but is true yes.

a custom made die would be of any great improvement

If John WHidden is as good as peoiple say he is, we'll see.
Same guy from another forum

I can and do send him drawings with exactly the numbers I want on them and he hits them. Basically I do less than half of the sizing effect that he calls for.

John says to send in three FF cases, OR chamber drawings, either or.

I asked this guy if you can request tighter tolerances...

yes, you can. I've been arguing with John since the day he opened shop.

So anything is possible.

 

[.30-06]

Cast the chamber and measure the neck. That is the only way to know for certain how much clearance there is between your reloads and the neck of your chamber. Anything else is just a guess, unless you happen to have a set of pin/plug gauges.

I don't think brass lies and Whidden has successfully made dies based on them. Sorry if I rebutted anything you fellas said, but I hope I haven't offended anyone.

 

[shortgrass]

When fired, brass expands to form a 'gasket', then slightly contracts. Otherwise, there'd be more extraction problems than we hear about now. Brass can lie or give false indications.

 

[.30-06]

I measure my fired cases and its minimum Sammi chamber. When I open the bolt there is slight resistance. Could that be ?

 

[shortgrass]

I am glad you are so sure of yourself. But, I must wonder, if you are so certain why even bother to create this thread, why even post if all you want is for everyone to agree?