Clean bore vs. Fouled bore?

[aushunter1]

The main thing to me is to 'know your rifle'

Take any shot you want, clean bore or not but know where the clean/cold bore or fouled shot is going to land if that's the way your going.

That's hunting 101 isn't it?

In fact you could also separate the 2, cold clean bore & cold fouled bore.
They will both be different.

But if I am starting load development I always foul the barrel before I start shooting the real stuff!

 

[Bravo 4]

The main thing to me is to 'know your rifle'

Take any shot you want, clean bore or not but know where the clean/cold bore shot is going to land if that's the way your going.

That's hunting 101 isn't it?

Maybe long range hunting 101, but the average "hunter" probably knows diddly squat about their rifles.

 

[carl1775]

Speaking of hunting, here is my reasoning for shooting a clean bore 1st shot. What if you have to clean your rifle? **** happens, people plug barrels with mud every year. Branches get scraped, grass is crawled through, birds poop.... or whatever reason. I know I can consistently get my bore clean the same way every time. And, it just so happens my shots are repeatable. Maybe I got lucky with this rig.

 

[Bravo 4]

Speaking of hunting, here is my reasoning for shooting a clean bore 1st shot. What if you have to clean your rifle? ---- happens, people plug barrels with mud every year. Branches get scraped, grass is crawled through, birds poop.... or whatever reason. I know I can consistently get my bore clean the same way every time. And, it just so happens my shots are repeatable. Maybe I got lucky with this rig.

That's why I cover the muzzle with tape. Also have a rifle cover for precipitation.

 

[LVJ76]

Saw an good video from barbor long range shooting school, I believe that's right. In any case he showed the difference between making your first shot with a clean bore vs a folded bore, I've got to say I believe he's on to something considering you can't for the most part BS physics. Bottom line is most of us zero with a fouled bore, unless you clean after every shot. So here's my question has anyone seen any real practical issues with this, for the record he was shooting at a 1000 yards. The differance was significant enough that I like to hear from you guys. Thanks in advance

This issue applies to both rimfire and centerfield rifles. I've seen the difference on .22 LR rifles as well as all of my centerfire rifles. Saw it on my brother's .17 HMR as well.

Never take a rifle with a clean barrel hunting, ever, always a little dirty. Same goes for competition, never start one with a clean barrel, youll waste at least your first five shots.

 

[ZAK13]

I always hunt with a fouled bore. Most of my rifles shoot just left and either up or down a bit, depending on which rifle I am shooting at the time on the first shot or two. After that, it shoots where the crosshairs are put.

 

[Wolf76]

I fail to see the point of shooting a clean barrel for groups. The most internal change per shot is the first 12 shots. Copper, carbon, and powder residue are being left behind after each shot. With a squeaky clean bore, you can't replicate the barrel condition unless you clean after every shot. With a fouled bore, the condition is very repeatable.
As for the 1 shot, 1 kill thing... that's a foolish plan. Sure, it's a goal and we put a lot of time into making it happen. But since I'm over the age of 12, I know things rarely go according to plan. Which is why I (and everyone else) carry more than 1 bullet in the field. And we've all had life happen, like small limb deflects a bullet, animal moves at the same time the trigger breaks, animal doesn't act hit, or we flat out got nervous and biffed the shot.
Point being, I need a gun that is consistent for many shots and that happens on a fouled barrel. Have never had a clean barrel shoot well(especially true with factory barrels).

 

[crkckr]

Every barrel is unique and I don't think it's possible to have any hard & fast rules for hunting with a clean or fouled barrel. Let your rifle tell you what it likes. If your favorite rifle shoots the first 20 rounds into the same POI from clean, then you start out clean. If it scatters the first 5 shots all over the country side before it groups shots together, then you better find a way to get those 5 shots off before you start a hunt. Point being is that one must experiment and find out what works best for your rifle. Sometimes there can be huge POI shifts with certain levels of fouling and even the temps can have an effect on that first shot. These are things every hunter should know about their rifle... in a perfect world, anyway. Reality is, while most of us probably know this information regarding our rifles, there are simply too many hunters out there that simply don't know or worse, just don't care! Personally I think it's a matter of ethics but I don't get to make all the rules, so at best all we can do is try to educate those willing to listen.
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[Weatherby Fan]

Some of my rifles will start grouping after just a couple shots. Some take 8-10 shots. I strongly recommend you get to know your barrels.

As said above every barrel is different, I have rifles that there is hardly a difference between clean or fouled bore and some are very evident
My Mark V 240 Wby is one that shoots a consistent 1/2" group when fouled, clean it and it opens up to 1.5" inches, a cpl 3 shot groups later and its back to a consistent 1/2" rifle.

Barrels are as individual as people, everyone is different.

 

[Marc Gauthier]

The deposits fill the imperfections of the barrel. It takes between 0 and 10 shots to make the barrel precise, depending on the barrel.

 

[Brandon Starkel]

I must have got lucky then. My Krieger barrel, clean and cold will put the first shot in the same place as the 10th to 25th shot

 

[Jeffrey Van Zandt]

Saw an good video from barbor long range shooting school, I believe that's right. In any case he showed the difference between making your first shot with a clean bore vs a folded bore, I've got to say I believe he's on to something considering you can't for the most part BS physics. Bottom line is most of us zero with a fouled bore, unless you clean after every shot. So here's my question has anyone seen any real practical issues with this, for the record he was shooting at a 1000 yards. The differance was significant enough that I like to hear from you guys. Thanks in advance

https://criterionbarrels.com/media/...hJwkl_u-y_z5Jq5Z3KLCoicMs4t5EqP8nk0ASIKasMDXw

 

[Jeffrey Van Zandt]

I leave the copper and only copper out when my groups open up, But I always clean out the carbon after a range day before heading out to hunt I will do 1-2 shots.https://criterionbarrels.com/media/...hJwkl_u-y_z5Jq5Z3KLCoicMs4t5EqP8nk0ASIKasMDXw

 

[nicholasjohn]

The main thing to me is to 'know your rifle'

Take any shot you want, clean bore or not but know where the clean/cold bore or fouled shot is going to land if that's the way your going.

That's hunting 101 isn't it?

In fact you could also separate the 2, cold clean bore & cold fouled bore.
They will both be different.

But if I am starting load development I always foul the barrel before I start shooting the real stuff!

I think this is ALL good advice. When you are doing a methodical process to develop your best load, it's essential to be sure that you're getting what you think you're getting. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels. With any load development method, you just can't have a bunch of variables in the equation.

As for your comment about this all being "hunting 101," I'm in full agreement on that as well. The rifle I used for everything for the first ten years of my hunting was one that would shoot the first round about six inches high at one hundred yards from a squeaky-clean barrel. Each successive bullet hole would be closer to point-of-aim, until rounds 4, 5, & 6 were in a cloverleaf cluster right where I wanted them - 12 o'clock and 2.5" high. The moral of the story was always to shoot three rounds through the barrel, and don't clean it until hunting season is over. I always verified my sight-in zero immediately before deer season opened. Everybody at our deer camp did the same thing, and the old guys had taught us to do this. It was the gospel in our camp, and my particular rifle was the perfect poster-child for why they had taught us this.