Saw an good video from barbor long range shooting school, I believe that's right. In any case he showed the difference between making your first shot with a clean bore vs a folded bore, I've got to say I believe he's on to something considering you can't for the most part BS physics. Bottom line is most of us zero with a fouled bore, unless you clean after every shot. So here's my question has anyone seen any real practical issues with this, for the record he was shooting at a 1000 yards. The differance was significant enough that I like to hear from you guys. Thanks in advance
Clean bore vs. Fouled bore?
- Thread starter Bcwn
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PredatorSlayer
Well-Known Member
I always leave my bore fouled for hunting and do not clean it until after hunting season. The difference can be significant as you get out past 500 yards.
I have tested this with numerous rifles used for both hunting and competition over the years. In just about every case there is a velocity and/or accuracy change from the first 1-5 shots fired from a clean bore. I would personally not even think about taking a clean/cold bore shot with LR hunting or competition.
I will not go hunting with a rifle that hasn't been fouled. I'm sure there are some rifles that don't have a poi shift in a clean cold bore, but I've never had one (to my knowledge). Don't know about my rifles I've been HBN coating barrels and bullets for. Because if I clean the barrel I re-swab it with the alcohol solution and fire a couple of shots to calm that down first. I actually tell my students to keep record of where their cold bore and or clean cold bore impacts are. Never know when you may have to clean a barrel and not be in a time/place/position to foul it.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
At 400yds, where I normally shoot, I have seen a dramatic difference in the point of impact for the first few shots. Velocity is always recorded to be lower for them as well.
In all fairness, my cleaned rifles also had CLP and a dry patch run through them after cleaning so that would also add to the differing impacts.
I never hunt with a squeaky clean barrel.
In all fairness, my cleaned rifles also had CLP and a dry patch run through them after cleaning so that would also add to the differing impacts.
I never hunt with a squeaky clean barrel.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
It is simple.
If you zero with a clean bore, hunt with a clean bore.
There are many reasons to do it ether way. Some barrels shoot good starting with a clean bore and shooting 3 or 4 follow up shots. Other barrels like one fouling shot before they settle down so first you have to know what your barrel likes.
Hunting usually requires one shot, so if the rifle i'm hunting with likes the barrel clean that's the way i hunt with it. I clean it and shoot one shot to set the zero because the first shot will be with a clean barrel.
as long as it stays in the same place every time I shoot it clean, that's where it stays. if after the first shot the group/zero changes but stays together, then that rifle will have one fouling shot without a clean every time I use it.
To complicate the matter, some barrels will group 3 or 4 realy tight but the 5th shot will move off the group because of fouling. Some will shoot as many as 7 or 8 shots before this effect from fouling starts. at some point these barrels will settle down and group fouled (They may not group as tight as with a clean barrel but it will be good enough for what they need). Many match rifles are shot in this state because many shots must be fired without the time to clean the bore.
So if you are going to hunt, shoot the way that it is most consistent every time that way you first and only shot will be exactly where you want it.
When starting load development I always break the barrel in and then clean and start shooting a group. I keep track of each impact by number and log each hit. this will tell me what the barrel likes and how many can be shot before the point of impact changes. this also tells me the rate of fouling and the point that I need to clean.
I saw that video and he is right about the poi changing as you shoot more rounds through a barrel. but when hunting you rarely get or need more that one shot so if your barrel is changing as you shoot some barrels don't level out until they have 50 + shots through them. so I recommend finding out where your barrel shoots it's best and hunting with it that way.
I consider 1 to 5 shots a clean barrel depending on the barrel quality for hunting. The groups are normally the best they will ever be in this range of shots. Once a barrel fouls, the bore fouling is ever changing up to a point and good groups are hard to find, once it gets fouled bad enough it settles down for quite a while until accuracy goes away and it has to be cleaned.
Just the way I do it for hunting.
J E CUSTOM
Good points!
When I started working at the schoolhouse I noticed the guys were cleaning their barrels almost nightly, they shoot a lot almost every day. Then we may check zeros before firing again, the students didn't realize that it may take 3-6+ rounds before their rifles would "calm down". They were wondering why things would be different on some days, and sometimes think they had to rezero quite a bit.
I'll add.....
I always zero and true my hunting rifles with 1 cold bore shot, let it cool completely and repeat. Kinda time consuming, but we all know that the point is to kill with the first shot.
I've seen some rifles even have POI change from cold bore to warm bore.
I always zero and true my hunting rifles with 1 cold bore shot, let it cool completely and repeat. Kinda time consuming, but we all know that the point is to kill with the first shot.
I've seen some rifles even have POI change from cold bore to warm bore.
Holy crap ! Now I understand the frustration coming from the sniper committee here at work. Wow Okay! this is really gonna be a task that needs meticulous attention. I ripped throuh a box and a half of HSM VLD Bergers thinking they we're all messed up, after taking a break and probably letting my barrel cool I used some of my barns x they shot great, got a sub MOA group for the most part at 100 yards, plinked at 350 2 out of three made it in the 6 inch plate. Backed up to 500 yards and my new barns X LR were all over the place about a 8 inch shot grout at 500 yards, figured what the hell I'll shoot some of my Bergers since they won't group and wouldn't you know it 2 round held sub MOA at 500 yards and one round I don't even know what happened there it was all the way left on the plate. The plate being a 14 inch plate. Ive got pics on my phone I'll try to up load
Brad
Brad
Rocky meadows
Member
I agree with your analysis only exception I ever seen personally was in a 15 inch hand gun that shot cast bullets . It always always shot and gave a better POI with a cleaned barrel .
Rocky meadows
Member
point of impact as the gun fouled it tended to move off but from fresh cleaned barrel dead on every time .
My main hunting rig is a Rem 700, in 300 win mag. I shoot 1" high at 200 yds. With a clean cold bore. Any follow up, is zeroed at 200. The rifle has shot like this since break in was complete. I always hunt with a clean bore, first shot is always high. I just compensate for the "miss."
