Can I improve my load procedure??

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Guest, Aug 7, 2004.

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  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This is my process.

    I find a bullet I'm interested in then check my say sierra manual and load 10 rounds for a specific powder/Bullet combo at each listed load. This gives me 40-50 rounds of one type of bullet with one powder at different powder weights.

    Came back from the range today and none of the 55 gr bullets I tried worked for poop. 55gr Blitz kings..55 gr Game kings all with H380 I heard this is supposed to be a good mix. If so..I did not find it.

    I also tried some Sierra 52 gr match kings with RE-15. Now we are talkin. Nice groups well under .5" I was impressed. Seems like all the poly tipped bullets I try never shoot well. It's a 1-14 twist barrel Rem 700 VLS in 22-250. The 52 gr sierras seem to work great with re-15 and Varget. Have not tried the H380 with them yet.

    I digress...What can I do to change my loading procedures. I hate after 3-5 rounds of a poopy load that I have 5-7 shots left and I know they will suck. Any help would be great as well as advice to get those poly tips shootin better.

  2. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver Official LRH Sponsor

    Jun 12, 2004

    I am sorry to say that the industry is letting you and all of us down by using the 1-14" twist in the 22 caliber varminters.

    In a 22-250, this twist is fine for all bullets up to a 55 gr Flat base but anything 55 gr with a boat tail and especially a tipped BT will generally prove very poor performers.

    I say generally because as soon as this is posted, I will get hammered by a couple guys that have this twist and are shooting the 55 gr Ballistic Tip into 1/2 moa groups.

    Let me say, I have never in my private shooting, not as a gunsmith and custom load developer seen any factory 22-250 shoot a tipped BT 55 gr bullet well. Even the flat based 55 gr V-Max is a poor performer in the 1-14" twist.

    I have a 220 Swift in the Ruger M77VT that I tried to get to shoot these 55 gr bullets out of and it never would group them inside 1.5 moa. I took that factory barrel and rechamered it to the 22-6mm AI and now it drives the 55 gr Blitzking to 4120 fps and groups are running in the 3's.

    Still when developing loads, groups were on par with the swift until velocity reached and pasted the 3950-4000 fps range. From the on, groups shrank instantly and dramatically.

    IF yo want to use a tipped bullet in a factory 22-250, use one of the 50 gr versions such as the Ballistic Tip, Ballistic Silvertip, V-Max and the great Blitzking as well.

    Yo really will not give up much in B.C. and you will gain accuracy and velocity.

    Other then that, send it to me and I'll fit a 1-12" barrel to her and then you'll be doing great with the 55 gr tipped bullets.

    Unfortunately, the industry as far as rifle makers are behind the times compared to the bullet makers.

    Your good results with the 52 gr bullet is another piece of proof.

    Good Shooting!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I kinda figured it was something like that. As far as sending it to you...That was one of the things I wanted to do when I made the comment in another thread. New barrrel and may be stock work(new stock) or rework or bed this one. I'm very happy with the 52 gr bullets. Maybe I'll try some of the 50 gr poly tips to see whats up.

    Thanks a million

  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Fifty Driver

    Can you send me your email to my email. That way I wont loose it [​IMG] I can send you an email asking about work and prices.

    Yawnnnn *Rule 4 Violation* it's late...Time for bed

    Thanks again for the help

  5. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

    Jan 21, 2002
    I guess I'll step in and be the exception to the rule for FiftyDriver [​IMG] I had a 40XB-KS in .220 Swift w/ the 1-14 twist that loved Berger 64gr MEFs above all else. Go figure. Had to be on the ragged edge of stabilization, but it worked.

    In general, it's not uncommon for a gun to 'like' one bullet weight or whatever a little better than another, but 50-52-53-55gr pills... it's kind of 6 one way, half a dozen the other. Not sure that would be enough difference to really upset things. If it likes the 50-53gr stuff, feed it what it likes.

    Just an FYI, if you get frustrated w/ loading up a handful of rounds for each of a bunch of different charge weights, you might try looking into what is known as 'Incremental Load Development Method' as published by Randolph Constantine, or 'Optimal Charge Weight' as promoted by Dan Newberry. Both more or less spin-offs off of the theories/practices of Creighton Audette. Basic idea is that you take a starting load, pick a reasonable seating depth, pick an increment, load one of each increment up to your max(depend on which version you subscribe to), and fire them at a target at about 300yds, keeping track of point of impact for each round. The idea isn't to see a little tiny group (yet), but to be able to see where you reach a 'node' where several shots start to cluster together vertically. The idea is that at that point, lets just say 43.5gr, 44.0gr, 44.5gr, and 45.0 gr, there isn't much velocity increas for the amount of powder increase, so the load should be fairly stable day in, day out, change in powder lots, thrown charges, enviromental changes, etc. i.e. not a finicky load. Then go back w/ some loads from in the middle of that node, and play w/ seating depth to find the sweet spot. Odds are, if you shoot a big enough range of loads, you may find more than one 'node' also. If you don't have a 300yd range, or don't trust your hold is steady enough, a chronograph can help out here, as it should show where several charge weights spit the bullet out at relatively close to the same speed (as compared to other charge weights which may show dramatic speed changes from one 0.3 or 0.5gr increment to the next).

    Google for it, or look on some of the boards like here,,, etc.

    All the above aside, it may not always work as advertised [​IMG] My .223 Rem worked great with it, arriving at a load that consistently grouped under 1" @ 300yds for 5 shots. My 6.5-08, put 17rds, spread across 2 full grains of H4350 behind a 142SMK, into one group about 2" high for a 150fps velocity spread. That's one of those that makes you go 'hmmm....'!


  6. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

    Jul 22, 2004
    The post that suggests the 1-14" twist is a poor performer when chambered in 22-250. Of course, it depends on the bearing surface of the bullet, but the point is well taken.

    I have a 22-250 Ackley that shoots 62/65 grain bullets, all Bergers, and they perform very well. The barrel is 28.5" and the twist is a standard 1-14, and groups average .450 and sometimes .250, which indicates that the increased velocity (3925/65s) and the resultant RPM makes all the difference.

    So, not to dispute the information, but as we all know, every gun is a law unto itself.

    Good hunting. LB

    edited for spelling.
    note* the 65 Berger is no longer available, for those that might catch that.

    [ 08-08-2004: Message edited by: LB ]
  7. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver Official LRH Sponsor

    Jun 12, 2004

    Your not disputing my response at all, in fact your just saying the same thing I am. TO shoot the longer tipped bullets and those like the Bergers, you need more velocity then the standard 22-250 can produce.

    This is why you are getting good groups at +3900 fps whereas the 22-250 would not at its 3750-3800 fps with the 55 gr tipped bullets.

    Just as Milanuk is getting the 64 grain pills to shoot well because he is using a Swift and not a 22-250.

    It has all to to with RPM's that allow the heavier bullets to be stabilized with the same 1-14 twist.

    If you want a 22-250 to do this you better go with a 1-12" twist.

    Good Shooting

    Kirby Allen(50)