Caliber size or Velocity and Energy?

[memtb]

Didn't read all but "sectional density" has my vote.
Which would I prefer for a running white tail. A shot that may be less than well placed. 30 or 6.5? used both and hands down the 30.

And, high % of bullet mass….after impact! Never been a fan of "fragmenting" bullets except on small varmints! memtb

 

[pdog shooter]

And, high % of bullet mass….after impact! Never been a fan of "fragmenting" bullets except on small varmints! memtb

You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong.

from you and thats perfect.
thats why the 30 over the 6.5
Now if I could have the time to make that well placed shot it would be different.

 

[Magnum44270]

Didn't read all but "sectional density" has my vote.
Which would I prefer for a running white tail. A shot that may be less than well placed. 30 or 6.5? used both and hands down the 30.

If that is how you feel, the 6.5 has more SD than the lighter weight .30cals

 

[memtb]

If that is how you feel, the 6.5 has more SD than the lighter weight .30cals

6.5 has higher sd than .30

Don't shoot "lightweight" .30's…..problem solved! ! memtb

 

[mnoland30]

I'm a fan of high SD (sectional density) for elk. One reason the 6.5 has been so effective on game is that the 140 bullet has a little higher SD than a 180 gr. .308. I know I much prefer the recoil of a 140 gr bullet over a 180 gr. Offhand, I shoot my 120 gr. 7-30 Waters much better than my 7mm WSM. Recoil can be overcome, but most shooters (present company excluded) don't shoot enough to master it.

As for bloodshot meat, my 405 gr. .45 muzzleloader bullet with 1800 fps muzzle velocity kills elk very well, with a minimum of bloodshot meat.

The one complaint I've heard about Bergers is that the tips sometimes get folded and don't expand. This can be fixed by using a pin drill to make sure the tips are open. I've shot javelina, deer, aoudad, elk, and ibex with 168 gr. 7mm going 2850 at the muzzle. I've killed two elk at 340 yards. It killed one so quickly, that I thought I missed when a second elk I hadn't seen appeared. The second elk took about 3 steps and rolled down the hill.

My first bull was killed at about 250 yards with a 7mm 140 gr. Barnes X bullet from a 7mm Mag. There was no blood trail, but I didn't need it, since it only went 35 yards. I started using the 160 gr. bullet with a SD of .283, and I got quick kills and exit wounds. I like Barnes because at close range and high velocity, they don't fall apart. I've used the 120 gr. TTSX at 2400 fps to kill 4 aoudad. None ran.

One way to compare the 300 WM to 6.5 PRC is to look at Berger's EOL ammuntion for the two cartridges. 300 WM definitely wins with energy at 400 yards with 2365 Ft-Lbs. vs. 2045 for the 6.5 PRC. The 6.5 barely wins in velocity with 2429 vs. 2399 fps. I would not hesitate to use either cartridge for elk.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I am not quite sure what you are getting at? Bloodshot meat certainly does occur. I never said it didn't. I first went Deer hunting in Alabama in 1968 and have been Deer Hunting every year since. Some of those years were with shotguns using 00 to #4 buckshot. Now if you want to see blood shot meat try deer hunting with buckshot. While your aim may be picture perfect the buckshot flying through the air has a mind of it's own and will impale the deer wherever it wants, and that includes a lot of prime meat. At the time an old retired Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant and I became friends and hunting buddies. He is the one that showed me how to, shall we say milk the blood out of bloodshot meat, As long a you start with the process before the blood starts to coagulate you can get a lot of the blood out. No it won't be prime steak or a roast but if ground into burger you will never notice the difference. Trust me buckshot produced a lot of deer burger back in those days.

As for the difference between a high speed bullet or a slow speed bullet or BB it's hard to say. I have shot my fair share of deer over the years that while the shots were deadly did cause bruising of some meat. As long as you don't shoot the deer, field dress it, load it into your truck or whatever you are driving and go directly home and start butchering the deer while the blood is fresh you can save a lot of the bbloodshot meat. If however you take go to the bar to celebrate with your buddies the blood will coagulate and then the only thing you can do is to cut as much of it out as you can and add it to the rest of the waste that accumulates when dressing a deer. If you take it in to a butcher to have it processed, they see the blood shot meat they simply View attachment 439403cut it out and throw it away no questions asked. If you question them they will simply say the meat was bloodshot. There are some unscrupulous meat processors out there that will use that excuse to; shall we say, procure, some venison for themselves. That happened to me a couple of years ago. I generally use Nosler Partitions for deer hunting. They for the most part will dissipate their energy in the deer and lodge in the ribs or hide on the other side without leaving an exit wound. I was using my 270 and hand loads, 130 gr Nosler Partitions loaded to around 2900 feet per second. The deer was only around 70 yards away, the bullet didn't slow down much. The bullet did go completely through and leave an exit wound the size of my fist on the other side. Please note that the entrance wound was on the deer's right side, exit wound on the left, right through the ribs. I have attached a picture of he deer. It was shot pretty close to the shop so it was loaded into the bucket of a Bobcat and taken right back to the shop and hung for the picture. The deer, on the hoof as shown here went a few pounds short of 200. After the picture we field dressed it and it then weighed in at 138 pounds. It was a big deer. I took it in to be processed after removing the rack (which is hanging in the shop along with many others) When I came to pick it up there was not enough meat for a deer that size. I asked the processor about it. His comment was that the entire left hind quarter was blood shot. I asked if I could see it and his response was that it had already been carted away. When I asked how a deer with an entrance hole on one side, exit hole on the other through the chest cavity could have an entire hind quarter blood shot? His response was, "You never know what a bullet will do once it enters the deer." I never went back to that processor and let everyone I knew about the incident. I simply believe he saw a big deer, an older blonde chick and figured that I would not know the difference in how much meat was returned. There was no way to prove otherwise so I let it go. He is still processing deer and most likely stealing venison.

Using a 100gr Partition in my 25/06 a great many years ago. In fact the first deer I shot with that rifle. At about 40yds was the range. It put the deer down in a few yards. That was just fine by me. After we end our hunt for the day. We go tha skinned the deers out an let hange.
That buck was blood shot from front shoulder to the butt on the left side of the deer. It hit ribs going in and out. No shoulder or other large bones. That box of bullets is still sitting around somewhere on my shelves. Now I use ballistic tips or accubond bullets now. I have had that problem again. Taken animals from all direction, deer, antelope, elk, and several Africa animals over the years. Most were one shot kills. Not all.

 

[Son of a Gun!]

Below is what I got using Berger calc 156 G7=.347, 180 NAB G1=.507 at 3300' with a 200Y zero:

View attachment 437915


View attachment 437924

So if you go by the theory that you should have at least 1500 ft lbs. of energy for elk then the 6.5 is a 300yd. elk bullet and the 300 is a 600 yd bullet!

 

[FEENIX]

So if you go by the theory that you should have at least 1500 ft lbs. of energy for elk then the 6.5 is a 300yd. elk bullet and the 300 is a 600 yd bullet!

It is not a theory; it is my unwritten rule. So yes, wherever the 1500 FT-LBS falls, provided it meets the minimum velocity for the bullet to expand effectively.