Bumping the shoulder with RCBS dies

[Bigeclipse]

Guys,
I currently reload for two rifles. one is 3006 and the other 7mm rem mag. The rem mag I have only neck sized twice and have not needed to bump the shoulder back. The 3006 I have always full length sized simply by screwing my RCBS die down as it states in the manual. I have since purchased the tools necessary to measure the shoulder length of my brass and would like to start bumping the shoulders when needed. Since my loads are developed using neck for 7mm and full length sizing for my 06 I will keep doing that for both.

so I have two scenarios here:
1st scenario: when I resize my 3006 brass how do I set my RCBS die up? do you measure your fired brass and then size all your brass to the smallest shoulder length of your smallest cases? I can imagine that some will be smaller then others but maybe I am wrong here. I always hear people say bump the shoulder back .001....does that mean on every case?

2nd Scenario: with my 7mm rem mag...I will most likely be using the same process as my 3006 scenario when it comes to bumping the shoulder back which means I will be full length sizing the brass to bump the shoulder back...im guessing after 3 firings or so. How much could this impact accuracy from my neck sized only loads? I did not work up these loads in fullsized cases but in neck sized cases...is this a possible recipe for disaster? Should simply get new brass or maybe I need to size these...then shoot them with a lower charge weight and then neck size again and then use my current load?

I hope my questions make sense...

 

[PowellSixO]

I don't know if I'm doing it the right way, but with my 7mm I do as follows:

-I put the case holder in the ram
-I raise the ram
-I screw the RCBS full length sizing die until it touches the case holder, and then back it off a quater turn
-I then take a once fired case (fired from my rifle) and use a headspace gauge to measure the case from the shoulder to the base
-I clean and lube the case and run it through the die
-I then remeasure the case from the shoulder to the base to see how far I've moved the shoulder
-I then keep adjusting the die until I get the shoulder pushed back as far as I want it
-I then run the rest of the brass through the die

I'm thinking of getting away from the full length sizing die though, and going to a collet neck sizing die. From what I've read, using a collet neck sizing die will eliminate the need to turn your necks, and it greatly improves your bullet runout. I'm going to purchase one and see if it improves my accuracy. I also need to get a RCBS CaseMaster Gauging Tool, so I can start measuring my cases and bullet runout. So many things I want to buy . I thought reloading was going to save me money....... . Or at least that's how I pitched the idea to the wifey .

 

[Bigeclipse]

I don't know if I'm doing it the right way, but with my 7mm I do as follows:

-I put the case holder in the ram
-I raise the ram
-I screw the RCBS full length sizing die until it touches the case holder, and then back it off a quater turn
-I then take a once fired case (fired from my rifle) and use a headspace gauge to measure the case from the shoulder to the base
-I clean and lube the case and run it through the die
-I then remeasure the case from the shoulder to the base to see how far I've moved the shoulder
-I then keep adjusting the die until I get the shoulder pushed back as far as I want it
-I then run the rest of the brass through the die

I'm thinking of getting away from the full length sizing die though, and going to a collet neck sizing die. From what I've read, using a collet neck sizing die will eliminate the need to turn your necks, and it greatly improves your bullet runout. I'm going to purchase one and see if it improves my accuracy. I also need to get a RCBS CaseMaster Gauging Tool, so I can start measuring my cases and bullet runout. So many things I want to buy . I thought reloading was going to save me money....... . Or at least that's how I pitched the idea to the wifey .

I am currently using the lee collet neck sizing die, but you will still need to bump the shoulder back occasionally which is where I am stuck...

also when you state "keep pushing the shoulder back to where you want it" that is what I am unsure of? How do I know how far back I would want it. Maybe I should measure my once fired brass to see where the shoulders are at now and then that is where I want to bump them back to when they need bumping? haha

 

[PowellSixO]

I am currently using the lee collet neck sizing die, but you will still need to bump the shoulder back occasionally which is where I am stuck...

also when you state "keep pushing the shoulder back to where you want it" that is what I am unsure of? How do I know how far back I would want it. Maybe I should measure my once fired brass to see where the shoulders are at now and then that is where I want to bump them back to when they need bumping? haha

I've just been pressing a bullet into the case (the case I'm using to adjust the die correctly) and then chamber it. I keep pushing the shoulder back until I don't have any resistance when chambering the round. Once I get to that point I do all of them that way. It usually takes me .002" to .001" of shoulder push back to get the cases to chamber like butter.

 

[earlcurtis67]

I am also to the point of needing to "bump" some of my brass, but not in a hurry since I have plenty of back up. I was planning on buying a Redding body/bump die so I wouldn't have to F/L size, Am interested to see where this goes.... E

 

[Mikecr]

With both the 30-06 and 7RM you have no choice really. You will have to size bodies, and shoulder bump soon & continually from that point, due to cartridge design.
It is never rational to think you should make all your reloading components match the worst/outlier. So fireform the 7RM brass until you feel it chambering tight, bump/measure trial & error for 1-2thou HS, lock the die/log it(whatever needed to reproduce from then onward). Apply this correct setting to all cases and verify through measure, with every one, every time, that they're correct.

As far as integrity of you load development, that's too abstract to speculate on. You'll find out soon enough.

 

[chad44]

I simply set up my FL die out a ways and slowly screw it in maybe a quarter turn at a time while measuring the case each time. Once I see a change in my measurement I lock it down. I bump them about 1-2 thousand to ensure they'll load while hunting. I bump them every time I reload. I don't see the point of neck sizing until the bolt feels tough to close. What if that's on a bull or buck of a lifetime and you can't chamber. Also, by only neck sizing your cases they are growing every time you fire and then all of a sudden you bump them back and you're effectively shrinking that case hence changing pressures. I like to know that every time I load a round it's going to act the same as it did before. Consistency is the name of the game I think.

 

[Dr. Vette]

I was planning on buying a Redding body/bump die so I wouldn't have to F/L size, Am interested to see where this goes.... E

That's what I do when I can.

I use the Redding body die to bump the shoulder, and then also neck size with my preferred neck sizing die for that caliber. It works well, and with some of the neck dies it minimizes the working of the neck area each time around.

 

[Mikecr]

+1 Dr.Vette

 

[el matador]

Measuring is the best way to set it up properly. 1/4 turn of a die is roughly .018", so you could be sizing WAY too much if you're using 1/4 turn increments. If you must use the trial and error method until it chambers smoothly then put a sharpie mark on the die and press so you can more precisely adjust the die. 1/8" of rotation is about .003" more shoulder bump. There are several ways to recall the die setup for next time, such as locking the set screw on the die, using feeler gauges or competition shell holders.

 

[Bigeclipse]

That's what I do when I can.

I use the Redding body die to bump the shoulder, and then also neck size with my preferred neck sizing die for that caliber. It works well, and with some of the neck dies it minimizes the working of the neck area each time around.

this is directly from reddings site "Body dies are designed to full length size the case body and bump the shoulder position for proper chambering".

Isnt this the same as my RCBS full length sizer die except my RCBS die also deprimes and neck sizes as well...so why not simply when the cases start sticking, then instead of neck sizing them the next time I reload them I full length size with my rcbs die but only bump the shoulder back .001-.002

 

[Bigeclipse]

I simply set up my FL die out a ways and slowly screw it in maybe a quarter turn at a time while measuring the case each time. Once I see a change in my measurement I lock it down. I bump them about 1-2 thousand to ensure they'll load while hunting. I bump them every time I reload. I don't see the point of neck sizing until the bolt feels tough to close. What if that's on a bull or buck of a lifetime and you can't chamber. Also, by only neck sizing your cases they are growing every time you fire and then all of a sudden you bump them back and you're effectively shrinking that case hence changing pressures. I like to know that every time I load a round it's going to act the same as it did before. Consistency is the name of the game I think.

My current load shoots so well I don't want to mess with it yet. This is what I have done so far...walmart had buy one get one free ammo before hunting season so I bought 4 boxes of Remington core lokts for my 7mm mag partially to break in the new barrel. The rifle with factory corelokts would shoot sub MOA out to 300 yards all day long. These were 5 shot groups. I used that once fired brass for my reloads. I cleaned prepped and only neck resized. I checked every case to make sure they wouldn't stick prior to loading and none were close to sticking. I worked up a load rather quickly only needing to use 15 cases of the 80 cases I had. The load I workled up is 160 grain accubonds going ~3000fps shooting under an inch at 300 yards!!! This was verified on two different days shooting 5 shot groups. So now I am left with 55 loaded rounds for hunting. This is not a rifle I intend on shooting often so these 55 rounds will most likely last me quite a few hunting seasons. My 3006 I do shoot quite often. That is really the rifle I am trying to learn best way to prep cases moving forward.

 

[chad44]

Measuring is the best way to set it up properly. 1/4 turn of a die is roughly .018", so you could be sizing WAY too much if you're using 1/4 turn increments. If you must use the trial and error method until it chambers smoothly then put a sharpie mark on the die and press so you can more precisely adjust the die. 1/8" of rotation is about .003" more shoulder bump. There are several ways to recall the die setup for next time, such as locking the set screw on the die, using feeler gauges or competition shell holders.

You're correct on the 1/4 turn probably being too much. I was guessing at this number because I haven't had to set up dies for about a year. Once they're set you're done. It's better to take a lot of time and get this step right. Even if you're turning that die 1/8 or 1/16 turns at a time. Or like you stated just measure the threads.

 

[LaHunter]

The Redding Competition Shell Holders are a great tool for bumping the shoulder back the correct amount, every time. They allow you to make contact between the shellholder and the die, so you get the same shoulder bump each time. Check these out on the Redding web site.

Good Luck