I'm possibly looking for some seater die's that seat from the ogive instead of close to the tip, I have used rcbs 2 die sets from 22 250,22 6mm ai , 243, two 2506's, 264 win, two 7mmrm and 3006, and . have had very good success. I test always with a black sharpie around ogive and test slight land marks on test rounds and trim my cases to minimum length before reloading, but recently noticed o a l changes in some of my reloads. Does anyone have a brand they would recommend?
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Bullet seater die
- Thread starter red dawg
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I use Forster Benchrest micrometer seating dies. It has a seating stem that is compatible with VLD bullets. Quite reasonably priced in my opinion.
As long as the seater doesn't touch the tip at all, any place on the ogive will work. All bullets' shapes are not identical, so there'll be a small spread of a few thousandths measured from case head to bullet tip.
Are you wanting every round's bullet to have exactly the same distance the bullet is from the rifling? If so, consider the following.
All rimless bottleneck cases are full forward in the chamber when fired. Their shoulder's hard agaisnt the chamber shoulder at that time. There's a small gap between the bolt face and case head (called head clearance) because the distance from case head to the shoulder is not the same across all cases. If varies by a few thousandths. If all loaded rounds have exactly the same overall length, that small spread in head clearance is going to cause the same spread in how far the bullet jumps to the rifling.
A few thousandths spread in head clearance causes no problems with peak pressure nor accuracy whatsoever. It's needed to allow the bolt to close into battery exactly the same without binding for best accuracy and ease of operation. Besides, your 300 WSM's rifling erodes away increasing that bullet jump distance about .001" for every 10 to 15 shots anyway. That's normal and also causes no problems for the life of the barrel.
Are you wanting every round's bullet to have exactly the same distance the bullet is from the rifling? If so, consider the following.
All rimless bottleneck cases are full forward in the chamber when fired. Their shoulder's hard agaisnt the chamber shoulder at that time. There's a small gap between the bolt face and case head (called head clearance) because the distance from case head to the shoulder is not the same across all cases. If varies by a few thousandths. If all loaded rounds have exactly the same overall length, that small spread in head clearance is going to cause the same spread in how far the bullet jumps to the rifling.
A few thousandths spread in head clearance causes no problems with peak pressure nor accuracy whatsoever. It's needed to allow the bolt to close into battery exactly the same without binding for best accuracy and ease of operation. Besides, your 300 WSM's rifling erodes away increasing that bullet jump distance about .001" for every 10 to 15 shots anyway. That's normal and also causes no problems for the life of the barrel.
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bob4
Well-Known Member
Been pretty happy with the consistency of my Forster competition seating die for my rifles. Only one like it I've ever owned, so I have nothing to compare it to.
I have pulled bullet seater stem from all dies that I reload for or with and no bullet regardless of of extreme length or short stubby bullets ever bottom out with the point of the bullet on the seater, I guess it was just seeing that o a l changed some in same calibers coming out of my seater die made me wonder too much! Thank You All for Your Imput
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Variance in cartridge base to ogive (CBTO) is usually due to variance in/excess seating forces.
Placing a seating stem datum higher on the ogive would only make matters worse.
Variance in CBTO from force is due to wedging of the stem against the ogive. So the reason stems take datum closer to tip than bearing is because this presents a higher angle to press against, reducing wedging.
Way up on the ogive near land contact datum presents such a low angle (esp. w/tangent ogives) that wedging is a certainty. This is why die makers do not do this.
You could make a hollow stem and then bed it to a specific bullet, creating far more contact area, provided the ogives present the same radius. Problem is -they don't.
Ogive radius varies at XX% per box.
Your ogives could first be qualified with a Bob Green Comparator (BGC),, OR,, you can do something about your seating force variances and the whole problem of inconsistent CBTO goes away.
Placing a seating stem datum higher on the ogive would only make matters worse.
Variance in CBTO from force is due to wedging of the stem against the ogive. So the reason stems take datum closer to tip than bearing is because this presents a higher angle to press against, reducing wedging.
Way up on the ogive near land contact datum presents such a low angle (esp. w/tangent ogives) that wedging is a certainty. This is why die makers do not do this.
You could make a hollow stem and then bed it to a specific bullet, creating far more contact area, provided the ogives present the same radius. Problem is -they don't.
Ogive radius varies at XX% per box.
Your ogives could first be qualified with a Bob Green Comparator (BGC),, OR,, you can do something about your seating force variances and the whole problem of inconsistent CBTO goes away.
Which is why I like the neck grip on rifle bullets to be as little as possible; just enough to hold the bullet in place for handling and loading. The release force needed to push the bullet out will be low as will be the spread in force to do it. Another variable reduced to minimum.
Ive had some of mine touch in particular with Bergers,some I just clearanced with a drill.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
This is what I prefer, but the best load will decide.
Some cartridges sing with higher pressures, and if best seating is OTL then higher tension than minimum may be needed to reach best pressure. But never excessive, and variances should be managed with minimal sizing adjusted by length of sizing(rather than diameter).
There is a lot of hoohah about annealing as though it's just been discovered and something everyone must do.. This reduces tension/variance of tension(provided perfect process annealing), while affecting seating forces separately, and again the best load will decide.
As far as effective distance to land relationship on chambered striking, this is managed with a plan.
Cartridges should be chosen/formed for 30deg+ shoulder angles, and headspace kept no more than 2thou. The striking should be set correctly (not excessive) and primers should be seated to ~3thou of crush. It's choices within our control. Mine are exactly controlled.
This may sound weird or even stupid to some, but when I need to bump shoulder back, I remove decapping pin from a fl sizing die of a 270 and remove the carbon from the neck and roll them on my oil pad. and get the shoulder back to normal length, then run them through my 2506 decapping die to remove the primer and my crimp on the case 1/8th of an inch or less, then measure length to check empty case, trim if needed and this has been working well for me, and all my cases are 2.484 before repriming and adding my charge and bullet. My test rounds or dummy round is set on minimal length brass and colored with sharpie and tried in chamber and re adjusted in length till I can faintly see land marks on bullet and that works for me 95% of the time even with other brands of bullets
65WSM
Well-Known Member
The most cost effective are Wilson seating dies. You can also buy a blank and have your riflesmith ream the barrel and the seating die at the same time. Here is a photo of the Wilson seating stem, standard and VLD. Riflesmith reamed dies are very useful for wildcat cartridges.
If you do not have an Arbor press, tap the top of the die with a piece of wood or a plastic hammer. I started my reloading career seating bullets with a broken baseball bat handle. I now use the inertia bullet puller as a tap in hammer at the range.
Redding makes VLD seating stems for some of their seating dies. Call them to get help.
I do not think much of RCBS dies. Even the competition die with the sleeve inserts I have found not as good as the Wilson. I have had a Gunsmith rebore some to the seating stems from dies that with names like RCBS, Lee and Forster. Look at the Sinclair catalog to see the accurate dies that shooters are using.
If you do not have an Arbor press, tap the top of the die with a piece of wood or a plastic hammer. I started my reloading career seating bullets with a broken baseball bat handle. I now use the inertia bullet puller as a tap in hammer at the range.
Redding makes VLD seating stems for some of their seating dies. Call them to get help.
I do not think much of RCBS dies. Even the competition die with the sleeve inserts I have found not as good as the Wilson. I have had a Gunsmith rebore some to the seating stems from dies that with names like RCBS, Lee and Forster. Look at the Sinclair catalog to see the accurate dies that shooters are using.
Attachments
It's my observation with seating dies that as long as the resized case has its neck well aligned with the body (no runout) and the neck's sized correctly for the bullet plus it's mouth is correctly deburred, all seater dies put bullets straight in the case. So says the results with my RCBS standard or competition, Lyman, Bonanza (now Forster) and Wilson seating dies. I like the RCBS competition ones for speed and ease of use.
Thanks for all Imput, I just noticed variances in some bullet length before loading and have not lost any accuracy that I've noticed, but some of my reload bud's dont think great accuracy can be achieved without buying a higher priced set of dies
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Don't forget the press threading & shell holder.
Wilson inline removes these.
I need to get around and give my Wilsons a window like a Vickerman
Wilson inline removes these.
I need to get around and give my Wilsons a window like a Vickerman
