Blackhorn 209 cleaning question

Ltsheets

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Hello everyone! Just bought my first modern muzz...a custom 700ML built by Luke at ASG. My question right now is concerning cleaning methods. I’m reading that you don’t have to swab between shots and some rifles like shooting with dirty barrels, much like centerfire rifles when using Blackhorn 209. Those of you that shoot 209 rigs, what do you do when hunting regarding cleaning?
 

Shane Lindsey

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Much like a center fire I had to learn my ml. One only tolerates two shots before it needs swabbed. The other can handle more with BH.

I had to map the cold bore just like the CF. luckily it's not a long range rig so it's minute of deer always.

I clean them both and ensure the bore/breech plug is good and dry for hunting.
 

Ltsheets

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Mine is a long Range rig so I need far better than min of deer.

Much like a center fire I had to learn my ml. One only tolerates two shots before it needs swabbed. The other can handle more with BH.

I had to map the cold bore just like the CF. luckily it's not a long range rig so it's minute of deer always.

I clean them both and ensure the bore/breech plug is good and dry for hunting.
 

ENCORE

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Hello everyone! Just bought my first modern muzz...a custom 700ML built by Luke at ASG. My question right now is concerning cleaning methods. I’m reading that you don’t have to swab between shots and some rifles like shooting with dirty barrels, much like centerfire rifles when using Blackhorn 209. Those of you that shoot 209 rigs, what do you do when hunting regarding cleaning?
I've shot a lot of BH from production rifles in the past. I've never had a rifle that would shoot to POA with a clean barrel. Most all my rifles required 2 rounds before the POI and POA became the same. There are a lot of concoctions people have came up with which they say will bring the first shot to all other shots, but I've yet to find anything that works, short of fouling the barrel. My normal practice was to swab any lubricants out, fire two primers only, then send two rounds into the berm on my range. After the second round, I loaded the rifle for hunting. I never knew rather my first hunting shot might be 35yds or 250yds, so it was necessary my POA and POI were identical. Unless the rifle was exposed to heavy rain, or a lot of moisture, it would remain loaded for up to two weeks. If I had any doubts with moisture, I'd fire the round and reload it.
Some rifles want to be swabbed between rounds, others you can shoot 50 rounds without swabbing between shots.
Although BH is less hydroscopic, it can still corrode. I've never had a problem with corrosion myself, but your mileage may vary. When in doubt, clean it out.
 

Ltsheets

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Thanks for this. That’s kind of what I’m leaning towards doing. Also, what do u mean by POA? I know POI but POA is escaping me right now.

I've shot a lot of BH from production rifles in the past. I've never had a rifle that would shoot to POA with a clean barrel. Most all my rifles required 2 rounds before the POI and POA became the same. There are a lot of concoctions people have came up with which they say will bring the first shot to all other shots, but I've yet to find anything that works, short of fouling the barrel. My normal practice was to swab any lubricants out, fire two primers only, then send two rounds into the berm on my range. After the second round, I loaded the rifle for hunting. I never knew rather my first hunting shot might be 35yds or 250yds, so it was necessary my POA and POI were identical. Unless the rifle was exposed to heavy rain, or a lot of moisture, it would remain loaded for up to two weeks. If I had any doubts with moisture, I'd fire the round and reload it.
Some rifles want to be swabbed between rounds, others you can shoot 50 rounds without swabbing between shots.
Although BH is less hydroscopic, it can still corrode. I've never had a problem with corrosion myself, but your mileage may vary. When in doubt, clean it out.
 

ENCORE

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Thanks for this. That’s kind of what I’m leaning towards doing. Also, what do u mean by POA? I know POI but POA is escaping me right now.
POA...... Point of Aim.

My last production rifle shot the first shot at 100 from a clean barrel 2.5" high and 1.5" right. Second dropped to 1.5" high and 1" right. All following rounds hit POA.
 

tankgijohn72

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Really depends on how far you are shooting with it. If you hunt where shots are 100 or less the POI shift shouldn't matter much for deer hunting. At 200 yd it will. My data mirrors what ENCORE said. See below
CVA
115 BHorn 209 275 parker match hunter CCI 209M.

Round 1-1891fps- clean dry bore
Round 2-1916 fps
Round 3-1949 fps
Round 4-2030 fps

I don't clean at all during range sessions. I don't see loss of accuracy even after 25-30 rounds. I just try to be aware of it when hunting. I wont leave a loaded round in the gun more than 2 days if its dry outside. If wet, I remove the round/charge. I try to foul the bore with at least 3 shots before opening day. I generally wont clean it again unless it is wet outside. Most of my hunts are 5 days or less. I clean with foaming bore cleaner and a bore snake.
 

kbrezlin

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There is a guy on Doug’s or Hank’s message boards that goes by ‘bestill’ who has probably shot more blackhorn than anaybody. Used it in competition. His regimine was to clean with a 50/50 mix of hoppes and 91% alcohol between shot for the most consistent accuracy. One damp patch followed by 2-3 dry from the muzzle. Alcohol aids in evaporation of the solvent. For hunting if a second shot was need he said just figure what correction, if any you would need, for a second shot.

I am going to use this method this year in my smoker gun. However in the past I have left it dirty with no ill effects. I have shot over 30 rounds of BH in a range session with no changes in loading pressure or accuracy. For subs it’s the only way to go!
 

birddog93

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Hello everyone! Just bought my first modern muzz...a custom 700ML built by Luke at ASG. My question right now is concerning cleaning methods. I’m reading that you don’t have to swab between shots and some rifles like shooting with dirty barrels, much like centerfire rifles when using Blackhorn 209. Those of you that shoot 209 rigs, what do you do when hunting regarding cleaning?
I got the best results for accuracy from running a dry patch between shots for Blackhorn (typically with other powders I used a spit-patch). I center the patch on the first run in the barrel and then offset a new clean patch on the jag before sending it down the barrel. I use a 2.5in cleaning patch but with a custom barrel might be to tight with your jag combination and might want to start off with a 2inch patch for 50cal. I never kept my muzzleloader loaded longer than a week (a confidence thing) and would shoot it on paper in the backyard to make sure everything is still on. I live in Michigan and the hunting is usually in wet/snowy weather or drastic temperature changes between night and day temperatures within the week cycle(including storage from being in the vehicle or house). Condensation can happen anywhere. I clean the muzzleloader with shooter's choice or Hoppes #9 and follow it up with high-quality gun oil. I store my muzzleloader with muzzle down for storage in off season so any oil would gravitate towards muzzle instead of the breach. Another thing I use is a muzzle guide for cleaning and loading to protect crown on the gun! An effective muzzleguide is using the front large red plastic attachment from Tipton Universal Bore Guide.
Dry vs wet patch. I never had a dry patch stick in my muzzleloader using Blackhorn but have by using the other black powder equivalents, hence the reason I use a spit-patch for the other powders. Always have a patch-puller handy, just in case. Also in the field hunting, I would not use patches(swabbing between shots) for a follow-up shot (never been in that predicament, been fortunate everything in big game hunting has been a one-shot kill. However, I wish I could say the same bird hunting!)
Good Luck and remember, my and other people results might not work for you and keep experimenting until you find what works for you as long as you keep it SAFE! Try other projectiles because you will find one that will work for you eventually with your powder combination.
 

birddog93

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Another thing I use is a muzzle guide for cleaning and loading to protect crown on the gun! An effective muzzleguide is using the front large red plastic attachment from Tipton Universal Bore Guide.
I forgot to mention that red plastic piece must be slid on before placing your jag on the rod. Invest in a good range rod for all your loading and cleaning! The only time to use the rod in the gun is for a follow-up shot if you ever need one. I use scotch tape to transfer my load marks on my range rod to my rod on muzzleloader just in case you ever change loads, peel tape off and start over. Also when shooting the muzzleloader, I keep the rod in the gun (NOT barrel but its storage location) to keep everything identical how the gun is being used in the field. I am a firm believer that the rod can change harmonics in the barrel. Hope this makes sense. Happy Hunting!
 

ENCORE

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I forgot to mention that red plastic piece must be slid on before placing your jag on the rod. Invest in a good range rod for all your loading and cleaning! The only time to use the rod in the gun is for a follow-up shot if you ever need one. I use scotch tape to transfer my load marks on my range rod to my rod on muzzleloader just in case you ever change loads, peel tape off and start over. Also when shooting the muzzleloader, I keep the rod in the gun (NOT barrel but its storage location) to keep everything identical how the gun is being used in the field. I am a firm believer that the rod can change harmonics in the barrel. Hope this makes sense. Happy Hunting!
A good friend of mine makes TOP QUALITY range rods. I had him make me two, but now need another, much longer for cleaning through now that I'm using the ASG BP.
Unless you're shooting LONG range while hunting, rather the rod is in or out shouldn't affect your POI much, if at all. Now, if you're target shooting for tiny groups, then remove the rod and thimble/s.
 

pooldoc

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We are blessed with a 6 month deer season on our MLD lease in West Texas and I use my Knight Disc Extreme ML the entire season. Our humidity is generally low, so before we head to the blind For the 1st hunt I pop 3 primers and load 110gr(vol) of BH 209, a 300 gr Harvester PT Gold bullet in a Black Crush Rib sabot and a Federal 209A primer and don’t clean the gun until I finish each hunt. No matter how many shots I fire I always clean the flame channel in my breech plug by soaking it in Hopes and reaming it out with a 5/32 Drill bit when I get home. So far so good. To help my accuracy I have shimmed the primer pocket to eliminate blowback and weigh all my powder loads.
 

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