Berger to introduce 7mm 195 gr EOL Hybrid Hunting Bullet

Ok so after reading all 27 pages worth of this thread...........I get a real big chuckle out of you "Yanks"............some of you guys sound like Kids at Christmas...........hehe "when,when,when,when......" what happened to the the experiance of waiting till Christmas morning to find all the goodies!!! HAHA

No harm ment don't intend to bend any feelers!!! I am associated with a archery company and we run into the same issues with Prototypes and failures long before the final product is released!!!

Look at it from us poor "Canuks" side of the border......................Once y'all are shooting these bullets "if / when" they work and are in the stores..........we will not see them up here for another 6 - 12 months!!!!

I just finished building a new 7-300 Win Mag on a Rem 700 with a Kriger 1-8" barrel...........I had originally ordered a 1-8.5" and then once I heard that Berger was coming out with a new 190+ gr bullet I changed my order to a 1-8" twist............Hell that barrel may not even see the 195's before its gone to the rifle range in the sky!!!

Patience my friends.........Good things come to those that wait!!!! hehe!!

By the way Thanks Berger for all the great bullets youu make.................!!!
 
Iron Worker said:
Just exactly how much advantage will this bullet have over the 180 gr VLD or HYBRID ?
Click to expand...

It'll be a slower moving, more aerodynamic projectile meaning increased drop (less flat shooting, and only to a certain distance) but it will 'buck' the wind better (at all ranges, despite its slower speed).

At a certain range (maybe 1km, not sure) the heavier bullet will fly 'flatter' than the lighter bullet, but this depends on what MVs you can get for each. At any rate, I'd rather have less windage guessing (undeterministic value) and more elevation drop (deterministic value).

For the guys running the BIG 7mm magnums, this news is music to the ears. For people with the short mags or maybe 7mm RM, still good news, but we're going to have to start accepting 2,500ish fps... Enter Reloader 17
 
Haagen Dazs said:
It'll be a slower moving, more aerodynamic projectile meaning increased drop (less flat shooting, and only to a certain distance) but it will 'buck' the wind better (at all ranges, despite its slower speed).

At a certain range (maybe 1km, not sure) the heavier bullet will fly 'flatter' than the lighter bullet, but this depends on what MVs you can get for each. At any rate, I'd rather have less windage guessing (undeterministic value) and more elevation drop (deterministic value).

For the guys running the BIG 7mm magnums, this news is music to the ears. For people with the short mags or maybe 7mm RM, still good news, but we're going to have to start accepting 2,500ish fps... Enter Reloader 17
Click to expand...

Good post, but I'm thinking 2800-2900fps will be possible with the 7RM and 7WSM, assuming the rifle is built to maximize velocity with that bullet.
 
2900 with a 195 from a 7 Rem mag sounds high to me. I had a 7 Rem mag 30" barrel shooting the 180s Berger VLDs maxing out around 3050 fps.
 
Theoretically:
Conservation of Energy: 180gn VLD @ 2,950fps = 195gn EOL @ 2,834fps.

Practically:
Longer bullets get seated deeper, leaving:
a) Less space for powder
b) Less space for initial gas expansion (higher pressure spike even with less powder)
Essentially, loss of fps due to deeper seating. (maybe 2,750fps with similar pressures signs of 180 @ 2,950?)

Also, the heavier bullet acts as a larger plug in the barrel, which also increases pressures (both the spike and overall). Shouldn't that higher overall pressure result in a bigger push and relatively higher MV? Well I'm not sure about that.


7mm Mag in a long action or 7mm WSM/RSAUM in short action: Seating depth restricted by magazine length. (above applies)

7mm WSM/RSAUM in a long action: Seating depth not restricted by mag length. Assuming same 8.5 (iirc) degree boat tail, overall internal volume should remain almost unchanged, just the COAL would get alot longer. This is why I'm so hard set on a 7WSM long action now :D


And FWIW:
180gn VLD @ 2,950fps @ 1000 yards in 10mph wind: 256.6" (7.1 mils) down & 57.0" (1.6 mils) left/right.
195gn EOL @ 2,750fps @ 1000 yards in 10mph wind: 277.5" (7.7 mils) down & 50.2" (1.4 mils) left/right.

Theoretically, If you can call a 10mph wind +/- 20%, the 195gn EOL will get you +/- 1.4" closer to the target.
 
Unfortunately all things are not equal, and I'm betting with some of the slower powders coming out the 195 will hit 2800-2900fps with 7RM LA rifles and 7WSM SA rifles, with long barrels that are throated long. I'd like to give RL33 a try, among others. The proof will be in the pudding, so we'll have to wait and see what is attainable in the real world, beyond our postulating and calculating :)

As far as wind drift advantage goes, it's easy to say that the 195 drifts 7" less than the 180 at 1000 yards in a 10mph wind, and that as long as you can call the wind with only a 20% error, that the two bullets will land within an inch or two of each other. What if the 195 lands on the diaphragm, and the 180 lands 1.5" behind the diaphragm? Better hope for a liver hit! Of course that is worst case scenario, but I'll take any advantage I can get. And what happens when there is a 14mph wind, gusting to 19mph, and the wind direction changes 3 times between you and the target? Your wind estimation error goes up, and the 195 will help mitigate any error more so than will the 180, and the advantage will start to add up as the wind gets more complicated than a simple 10mph constant full value push.
 
Let just hope we can run one out of an Allen mag at 3250 fps. Makes me warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.
 
A few thoughts from the horse's mouth on the 7mm 195 gr.

The bullet tooling is finished and has been tested with successful results. This means that we can make bullets that match the design dimensions, nothing more. We used prototype jackets since the length of the jacket we needed was not certain.

Now that the length of the jacket needed is known we have it in our schedule to make standard issue, J4 match grade jackets. The fact is that the election has us overwhelmed with demand. This means only that we can't get these jackets made tomorrow but they will be made soon.

Then, they will be sent to Bob and a few other folks (Kirby for one) to be tested and abused. If these tests prove to be positive then the bullets will be regularly available as soon as we make more (once the test results are confirmed). I won't BS you. This could take 2 to 12 month depending on what happens during the testing phase.

I'll remind everyone that this is a totally new concept. It is in fact not as close to the recently tested 270 cal 170 gr bullet as Bob posted about. The 170 gr is outside the norm but not nearly as much as the 195 gr. Having said that, the 270 cal 170 gr has performed well in abuse testing and is now going to terminal performance testing. The good news is that so far everything looks good.

Something to keep in mind about the 7mm 195 gr, we are making it with the idea in mind that it will be pushed hard in larger cases. The heavier weight and sleek design is a big leap forward in performance (if it works). In smaller cases much MV will be lost due to the heavy weight which may produce a wash in performance compared to 180 gr bullets.

I'll admit that this is a generalization based on no factual testing data at this time but I don't want anyone to think that we are creating the next lazer beam. It is still a bullet subject to all the same influences and physics realities as every other bullet.

Regards,
Eric
 
Thanks for the update Eric. Your honesty is appreciated.

On another note, your sidenote about the election..... will we have to give Obama the salesman of the year award AGAIN?
 
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