Berger supporters, Vocal Minority with Something to Gain, or Legit?

[sturner]

Did the OP leave like on page 3 or 4?

 

[Danny1030]

I've been a member here for some time now but have never posted anything. So just a lurker if you will that can't be lumped into the same "3-4 guys" posting on multiple forums. I use Berger Bullets and I am definitely a supporter if that's what you want to call it. I haven't yet shot the .308 215, but have had phenomenal success with the 168 and 180 .284 VLDH as well as the 140 .264 VLDH on deer and elk from 25yds on deer out to 600ish on elk and deer. Everything I've shot with them has gone 2 feet straight down with the exception of 1 whitetail buck who made it 20 feet shoulders plowing dirt.

 

[WYO300RUM]

Did the OP leave like on page 3 or 4?

Lol. Was wondering also.

 

[sturner]

Nothing like stirring the pot with a boat paddle then leaving

 

[Tiny Tim]

Been fun though. But I certainly thought I'd see the pic of the deer eating popcorn. Lol

 

[sturner]

Been fun though. But I certainly thought I'd see the pic of the deer eating popcorn. Lol

Right

 

[VTbluegrass]

I've hunted with the Berger 130 in my 270 nearly exclusively for 8 or so years. Tried them and they were amazingly accurate in my rifle. Southern whitetails and liberal limits thats around 20-25 deer, all have passed through and the few that did move were short tracking jobs.
To be fair I had the same performance and experience with 150gr Corelokts on deer out to 250yards before switching. The Berger's just shoot little groups and the Corelokts hover around 1.5MOA.

 

[7magcreedmoor]

I want berger consistancy, with an accubond core and and eldx tip.....is that too much to ask for?
A true match grade bullet (berger)
A real bonded core (accubond)
And consistent expansion (eld-x)....

A bonded berger with a polymer tip to ensure expansion....simple right?

I suppose while I'm dreaming, I'd like this in a sub 1/2moa 7lb rifle with a 250@ 3000 and .9 bc with little recoil and no brake.

Sounds like Boris and Natasha's "hushabomb"...

 

[7magcreedmoor]

I don't get the "Elves" reference LOL!

So, I guess there are only 2 Tolkein readers on this site....

 

[.300 Dakota]

I really want to shoot the 215 Hybrid, despite witnessing poor performance with the VLD with my own eyes. So I started really using the Google and reading real world reports here there and everywhere. The one thing that I realized, there is a very vocal group of people who are members of every single forum on the internets. There are like 3-4 people who are members of every shooting forum that ever was and post on all of them day in and day out. Don't you people have something better to do? Anyway, when you really weed through the "amazing" reports from the vocal minority, you find a lot of more joe average type guys who don't have the best things to say but seem to get drowned out or shouted down by a couple people who allegedly have killed ten thousand game animals without a failure.

Is it all guerrilla marketing?

I don't chime in on too many things anymore, but I feel the need to do so here.

First let me say, I have never, historically, been a fan of Berger bullets, JUST BECAUSE I couldn't get them to shoot worth spit in anything. Like you, I searched everywhere for the answer to making the "magic bullet" "magic". What all the cool guys were raving about, I couldn't get to print inside 2" for the most part. After swearing off them, I kept occassionally reading articles and hearing tips. When I've had several guns, lately, that wouldn't shoot anything I really wanted them to shoot, I tried some left over Bergers. I started loading them ON the lands (as in touching). Those guns (6.5 Creedmoor, .284, and .280 Ackley) will stack those into sub-1/2 MOA, when they wouldn't shoot anything else smaller than an inch. I witnessed a big NV bull elk shot at 468 yards with a 140gr Berger from a 6.5x284, and while the hunter did manage to put 3 rounds through the elk, it only went 5 yards after the first shot. The follow ups were insurance. Complete pass through with incredible wound channels.

NOW, let me say this: I has a lot of 155gr .30 caliber Bergers that only 1 out of 3 rifles would group under an inch. The other 2 wouldn't hold 2" with them. I have some 87gr 6mm VLDs upstairs that NOTHING has ever come close to shooting til this day. Tried 4 or 5 rifles, at least.
When I first tried Barnes, before, and just after they invention of the grooved TSX, I had the same experience. Now with the TTSX, and even the TSX, I can generally get most "stubborn" rifles to shoot some weight of these, and shoot them well. But not always.

I have no proof to back this up, but I believe a couple things happened. First, I believe loading techniques are specialized and "delicate" for Berger bullets. It's not like a Ballistic Tip or Sierra that will shoot in about anything, seated to whatever depth, and loaded with whatever powder. These techniques take some time to develop. Second, I think manufacturing consistency and quality control has improved from lot to lot of bullets. I don't believe every lot of these were created equal earlier on.

Finally, like Barnes (and other grooved bullets) or those with long, secant ogives, not every gun will shoot these. And I have no explanation as to why not. If they do, they may not shoot one particular variety (weight) of them. The ones you speak of shot VERY well for me in a pair of custom 300 Dakotas, and at least one 300 Win Mag.

Now, if you're questioning on-game performance (terminal performance) only, I can't comment further than the one instance I saw them used in camp. Like you, probably, I see mixed reviews. Generally on lighter variations. I am of the opinion that if a 6.5 140 grain can put an elk down in 5 yards at 468yd distance, a 215 grain can slam him to the turf at about any reasonable hunting range. Might you NOT get an exit wound, especially close up? You might not. Might you get an occasional failure to expand (like they say will happen if you use their target bullets for hunting)? I would think it possible. Would you ever get any excessive meat damage? I would think regularly. So I think, in part, it depends on your definition of performance. Are these bullets capable of great performance? Yep. Are they infallible? Nope.

They are not the do-all, end-all in every gun. But in some guns, with an experienced handloader, they can be. Best of luck with whatever bullet you find that shoots good!

 

[Coues110]

I think what happens a lot, is there are people who get to hunt all over the country or on ranches and are guide's that kill or whiteness lots of kills every year. The 215 kills. I have killed animals with them and no problems. I think there are WAY more people who get into long range hunting and don't practice enough or at all and take shots they shouldn't. They get a rifle that shoots 1/2"'at 100 yards and then think they can kill an animal at 1k. There are lots of bad long range shots taken. The more I shoot 1 k on paper the more I realize how much can change so fast. So you hear about how Bergers don't work because people try and shoot the shoulder. Or make bad long range shots. You do not want to shoulder punch an elk or deer with a vld. I am a bow hunter before I got into shooting. I always go for double lung. Only other bullet I would try is a LRAB. I personally have not had any issues with Bergers. Hybrids hold together better than VLD'S (thicker jacket). They can have clogged tips from polishing compound. So that needs to be checked.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

"Berger supporters, vocal minority?" The post starts with innuendo and zero data so what do you expect?
If a bullet like a Berger has incredible range accuracy which has translated into many effective kills, then that's what it is with no need for emotion. I'd rather listen to a small group that has experience with something, over a large group that blabs about something they have no experience with. I hear opinions all the time about monos, from those with absolutely no experience with them, especially about that "penciling problem." As to Bergers, I've been really enjoying many new recipes with the cow elk that my Berger performed excellently on last season.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

To those of us that have a definition of bullet terminal performance that includes the bullet not coming apart before it's finished defeating the target, it's pure supporter foolishness to try to take what in any guise is nothing but a target bullet and to push it into hunting purposes.

For those of us that think (wrongly) that many light weight fragments won't lose speed and therefore killing power faster than large heavy still glued together bullets which have expanded a bit but not come apart it seems just right.

To me, it's abject supporter foolishness from supporters that almost by definition don't really get how living animals, physics or statistics work.

Your know it all opinion seems to discount the number of animals this supporter bullet has taken.
Carry on.

 

[HRM Johnny]

I have used many bullets over the years (Berger's, Barnes, Nosler ballistic tips and accubonds, partitions and now hammer bullets). I just like trying different things. I also have two different Sherman rifles not because they are better but because it was fun to do.

I haven't killed as many animals as some on here (in the 100's). But between me, my son and some buddies that I have taken hunting and used my rifle, I have been a part of 15 elk, 8 coues deer, 6 mule deer, 3 buffalo, a lot of whitetail deer (in Texas you could kill 2 bucks and 3 does) and a lot of pigs and a crap ton of coyotes. All of these animals were BEHIND the shoulder point of aim shots and the only ones that have gotten away without me finding them are coyotes and that is because they were on the run and I made a bad shot on it.

All of the big game mentioned were all recovered within 100-150 yards of where they were shot. Oddly enough, white tail deer were the ones that ran the furtherest after the shot. And all of this was while using all of these different billets except the hammer hunters as they are new to me.

I say all of this not to brag but to ask...how does one know where they hit an animal if they didn't recover it? I hear a lot of people say.."the animal got away and I hit it right behind the shoulder, I will never use such and such bullet again!" Even if you have a spotter, they can mess up and miss call your shot. I saw a guy shoot an elk and the spotter said he hit it right behind the shoulder and dropped it. Well the elk was still moving on the ground. We got up to it and he hit the elk in the spine a little far back and that's why it dropped. He still recovered the animal but it was a bad shot that would have been thought of as a good shot had he not recovered the animal.

Do bullets sometimes not perform as they should? Yup...seen that happen too. 180 Gr Berger out of a 30-06 on a mule deer at close range. Literally blew up on the shoulder and never went through to the vitals. The deer ran off and they almost didn't find it but when they did find it, it was laying down and very much alive. How do we know all of these details? Because the animal was recovered. I think a lot (not all) of these bullet arguments where the animal got away even though it was hit right behind the shoulder into the vitals is really a bunch of made up hoopla that the hunter wants to believe besides making a bad shot and I'm taking about any bullet used. Picture of deer below.
View attachment 163137


I get that people become huge fans of bullets and rifles because that is their experience. I don't agree with them getting in and bashing others for not using them or saying that they didn't work out for them. I'm also not a huge fan of someone bashing people for using said bullet or rifle and calling them fan boys. People should just mind their own business on both sides and use what works for them.

So, I got to ask: why did you black out the face?