Before Mattel

[adkguy]

Would like to hear from some of the older members their thoughts on the present gun-grabbing. When I first started hunting, guns wore wood stocks and magazines carried 4 rounds. I understand that returning soldiers always adapt the platforms they work with daily to the civilian world. BUT, when great-grandad brought the .03 from the trenches of France and gramps returned with a Garand from Iwo, you did not have the freaks that thought they could be Rambo nor the geeks playing Special-Ops games on the internet. I think that this, along with the permissive upbringing that seems to prevail are the true problem. I shot the M-16 A1 30 some years ago in the Army and thought it a wonderful gun to shoot, so I don't necessarily hate black guns, I just don't have any use for them. Cartridge is too small for northern white-tails, 10 rounds is 9 more than I need, and even though my Encore is stainless, it wears wood. Guess my question is, how many hunters are as befuddled as I am? Know the younger crowd is going to hammer me, but I got big shoulders. thanx

 

[westcliffe01]

So just to throw my stone in the pond, what does someone like you make of modern bolt action rifles like a tube gun ?

For defensive rifles, how about the IMI Tavor ?

The way it is packaged and the ergonomics appeal to me a lot more than the typical AR 15.

 

[HARPERC]

So just to throw my stone in the pond, what does someone like you make of modern bolt action rifles like a tube gun ?

For defensive rifles, how about the IMI Tavor ?

The way it is packaged and the ergonomics appeal to me a lot more than the typical AR 15.

Perfect!

Each generation has to make it their own. If you don't like it don't do it. I'm not fond of muzzle loaders, I've never been impressed with "double ought buckshot", Remingtons are tough to love, and if nobody ever mentioned Jack O'Connor again it would please me greatly.

So what? Last time I checked Jesus didn't leave me in charge until he gets back, Mohammed wouldn't like the fact my artificial knee isn't going to hit the deck five times a day for anything, and if Moses don't want his pork chop I'll eat it too.

 

[rick523]

Would like to hear from some of the older members their thoughts on the present gun-grabbing. When I first started hunting, guns wore wood stocks and magazines carried 4 rounds. I understand that returning soldiers always adapt the platforms they work with daily to the civilian world. BUT, when great-grandad brought the .03 from the trenches of France and gramps returned with a Garand from Iwo, you did not have the freaks that thought they could be Rambo nor the geeks playing Special-Ops games on the internet. I think that this, along with the permissive upbringing that seems to prevail are the true problem. I shot the M-16 A1 30 some years ago in the Army and thought it a wonderful gun to shoot, so I don't necessarily hate black guns, I just don't have any use for them. Cartridge is too small for northern white-tails, 10 rounds is 9 more than I need, and even though my Encore is stainless, it wears wood. Guess my question is, how many hunters are as befuddled as I am? Know the younger crowd is going to hammer me, but I got big shoulders. thanx

Sounds to me like you agree with your representatives of the state you live in, (Utopia) My suggestion would be take your garand and bullet and go hunting. My ? why are you on a long range hunting forum, as it seems you have no intention of ever shooting or hunting at any real distance. lightbulb

 

[dust]

Because it's raining outside and I can't work on my car, I will post up

When I first started hunting, guns wore wood stocks and magazines carried 4 rounds.

When I started hunting guns wore wood stocks and had 30 rd magazines. Then dad bought a Dragunov stock for it, and it wore plastic and had a 30 rd magazine.
The gun was made in the late 50's.

I understand that returning soldiers always adapt the platforms they work with daily to the civilian world. BUT, when great-grandad brought the .03 from the trenches of France and gramps returned with a Garand from Iwo, you did not have the freaks that thought they could be Rambo nor the geeks playing Special-Ops games on the internet.

I think I am confused, because I don't know of too many soldiers that have freaked out and thought they could be Rambo, which by the way came out in 1982, so you can't really attribute this kind of behaviour to "current" times.

I don't necessarily hate black guns, I just don't have any use for them.

Some, or rather alot of people do.

Cartridge is too small for northern white-tails,

How much do you know about the current choices for the AR-15? By referring to the Ar-15 as a cartridge, I think I can safely assume little. People have used them for deer, elk, pigs, all kinds of big game. You realize that there are loads up to .50 (3,123 ft·lbf at the muzzle) available for the Ar-15 platform? The 6.5 Grendel will stay supersonic out to 1K plus. I think it's safe to say an Ar-15 has probably killed most of everything available to hunters here, and I know of an AR-10 that went hunting in Africa.

10 rounds is 9 more than I need,

I understand that you are hunting 1 deer. Others may be hunting or controlling 10+ coyotes, pigs, etc. in a single event, where a fast follow up shot means several less dead livestock or several hundred dollars less in crop damage, more money from a customer, more meat on the table for the family, a tournament trophy, etc.

and even though my Encore is stainless, it wears wood.

Precision Firearms AR Wood Stocks and Forearms Kits

Guess my question is, how many hunters are as befuddled as I am?

Yep. I understand that you don't have any use for the Modern Sporting Rifle. I hope you understand that alot of people, young and old, do. I hope even more that you don't go out of your way to show your distaste for the MSRs, especially to people that don't know about guns, just as I hope that MSR shooters don't give the bolt and single-shot owners too hard a time for owning an inferior rifle

 

[dogdinger]

adkguy....

I don't consider myself part of the younger generation, but I do take exception to the Rambo comment.... the context in which you use it seems to suggest some "negative" connotations..... as I remember the movie, he was a returning special forces soldier that was fighting against injustices he encountered in our country/legal system.... ahhh, would that we had more people who would stand up to injustice today! We need people to stand up for what is right, especially the over-reach of our government, and if it comes to that , I darn sure don't want to be doing it with a single shot firearm. I suggest your read up on what the second amendment to our constitution is all about....it sure as hell aint about duck huntin! Your intolerance sir is dangerous. Lets stand for all the constitution, not just select parts.....AJ

 

[adkguy]

Sounds to me like you agree with your representatives of the state you live in, (Utopia) My suggestion would be take your garand and bullet and go hunting. My ? why are you on a long range hunting forum, as it seems you have no intention of ever shooting or hunting at any real distance. lightbulb

On this forum because I admire the people running the show. As for agreeing with King Andy and his minions, I've driven to Albany several times to protest the safe act and imagine my name is already on a lot of government sh#tlists. If not, it will be the 3rd Friday in May. I just do not see this happening if nobody had "MSR"s.

 

[westcliffe01]

50 or even 20 years ago, the police did not look like this:

 

[SidecarFlip]

50 or even 20 years ago, the police did not look like this:

That covers it.....

Of course they weren't crusing around in MRAP's either.

I don't care for black rifles either, never have. Had a couple of those Dragunov things and sold them for a lot of money last time Obama farted....(thanx Obaba).

You can't hit beans (or a target let alone an animal with one) so I see them only as a deterrent to home invasion and a cheap way to expend cheap ammunition.

I've never understood the 'Tactical' aspect at all. I consider anything tactical to be testosterone inducing, just like the AR platform is and you won't find any in my possession and never will. Don't need a 'badass' loking rifle for hunting.

Firearm owners who court that image (black guns) are their own worst enemy. Those rifles are preceived by the public to be the ones responsible for mass killings, whether true or not, people only believe what the media tells them.

After all, look at Obama, a 2 term looser but the media loves him.....

I'll keep my bolt guns with the pretty furniture, you can keep your black guns (for now). If the current administration wins, you'll give them up and I'll most likely will keep mine......

 

[lazylabs]

This thread highlights the real problem. We as gun guys can't help but disagree with each other. If the anti crowd keeps picking away at the fringe and we don't all stand together we do half the work for them.

The folks that say they don't need black guns for hunting or why do you need a STANDARD capacity 30 round magazine............ The second ammendment was not intended to allow hunting.

 

[westcliffe01]

The day WE are guided in any way by what is in the media, we will be finished.

I personally do not care for the ergonomic of the AR-15. But that does not mean that I am anti semi auto. The AR-15 just conveniently happens to "symbolize" all western made or designed semi auto rifles.

Make no error, if the assault weapons ban had passed this last year, it would have affected a lot of weapons including many with a wooden stock and low capacity magazines. That would include the Mini 14/30 amongst others. The 10 round SKS would have been on the list too.

So regardless of the icon chosen by the media, it is clear that those in power want us deprived of all means of self defense.

 

[Wile E Coyote]

This thread highlights the real problem. We as gun guys can't help but disagree with each other. If the anti crowd keeps picking away at the fringe and we don't all stand together we do half the work for them.

The folks that say they don't need black guns for hunting or why do you need a STANDARD capacity 30 round magazine............ The second ammendment was not intended to allow hunting.

I couldn't agree more with this statement!!

We firearms owners, no matter what type of gun you prefer, need to learn to stick together and sound like one voice. Period!

Look at any of the 'agendas' that have been pushed in recent times. Many of them, if not all, are offensive to most. Yet those proponents all stick together and worked to one end. Like it or not, WE gun owners, ALL of us, MUST learn to be one voice - without exception.

Instead of 'discussing' the merits of a MSR vs a wood stock and steel gun, we better start talking about what to do with those who betray the trust the 2A places in each of us. Yes, I said 'trust,' because we as a society should have trust in each other to use our rights and liberty's with responsibility (the part the founding fathers assumed we would all do.) Those who cross the line, betrayal through their actions, need to be called out loudly. Not just the crooks but the politicians who push these useless laws, the organizations who push the anti gun agenda, the media who delight in every instance where someone betrays us.

The Second Amendment IS about the restraint of tyranny. Hunting, personal protection, competition, or any other legitimate use of a gun by the people is secondary.

My .02 on the subject. deep breath.

Pete

 

[SidecarFlip]

The day WE are guided in any way by what is in the media, we will be finished.

I personally do not care for the ergonomic of the AR-15. But that does not mean that I am anti semi auto. The AR-15 just conveniently happens to "symbolize" all western made or designed semi auto rifles.

Make no error, if the assault weapons ban had passed this last year, it would have affected a lot of weapons including many with a wooden stock and low capacity magazines. That would include the Mini 14/30 amongst others. The 10 round SKS would have been on the list too.

So regardless of the icon chosen by the media, it is clear that those in power want us deprived of all means of self defense.

Well stated in as much as you already know what resides in my gun safe (and elsewhere)......

Having posted what I posted, I too have a gas gun or two. They have their place, just not a long range weapon in the true sense of the word. One thing I don't have or want is a 30 round magazine or even a 20. 5 or 10 is fine and most times I only load 2 rounds at a time.

 

[dust]

most times I only load 2 rounds at a time.

Great thing about magazines, you can always load less.