At what point are you done with load development?

[lancetkenyon]

I usually stop about here....

 

[memtb]

Well......if you consider that acceptable! . Just kidding, 99% of serious shooter would be quite pleased with those groups! memtb

 

[Stokesrjsr]

I'm working on a load for my Blaser R8 308 barrel. It is a 16.5" suppressed barrel so I'm trying to optimize a load that performs well in such a short barrel. This is primarily a hunting gun although it is such a joy to shoot I also shoot it just for pleasure. I've found many accurate loads with 165/168 grain bullets with various powders but I've settled on IMR8208XBR as the best for this application. So far I have tried the 168 grain Sierra MatchKing, 168 grain Sierra Tipped MatchKing, 168 grain Hornady ELD Match, 165 grain Sierra Tipped GameKing, 165 grain Hornady SST, 165 grain Nosler AccuBond, and 165 grain Nosler BallisticTip. They all shoot under one MOA but the 168 grain Sierra Tipped MatchKing shoots the best.

My goal is to use this load out to 800 yards on deer sized game with confidence that it will humanely kill the deer quickly. So, I am primarily focused on terminal ballistic performance at low impact velocities. It is no problem to hit the lungs of a broadside deer as long as the wind is low speed and steady. I know this because I regularly practice on a deer silhouette out to that range using the 168 grain Tipped MatchKing. If I wind up using one of the other bullets then I will fine tune a load with the chosen bullet to under 1/2 MOA.

So far I have tested these bullets at 2600 FPS, 2200 FPS and 1800 FPS with 10% Ballistic Gel calibrated to the FBI standard. All perform well at 2600 FPS, they penetrate in a straight line sufficiently deep enough to destroy the lungs of a deer on a broadside rib cage shot. I understand that Ballistic Gel does not fully represent the complex construction of a deer with dense muscle, bones, and spongy lungs, but I have recovered enough bullets from game and compared the results in ballistic gel to have confidence it is pretty similar and certainly provides a better indication of reality than the marketing information provided by the bullet manufacturer. Most don't even provide a minimum velocity the bullet will perform at except Nosler. Some other bullet manufacturers will provide a minimum velocity if you call them and ask.

I am particularly concerned about the low velocity performance because of a situation in which my favorite bullet the Nosler 165 grain partition produced a slow kill on a Desert Bighorn Ram at 567 yards fired from my 24" 30-06. I was very disappointed because my buddy spotting for me said there was no indication of a hit but the sheep walked about 100 yards and bedded down behind some rocks with only his head visible. We watched him for a long time until he finally succumbed to the double lung shot. When I got to where he was shot there was no indication of a hit and no blood along the trail he took until we got to where he was bedded and died. The bullet made only a very small hole though both lungs probably no larger than bullet diameter with little to no bruising. Today Nosler publishes a minimum velocity of 1800 FPS for the 165 grain Nosler Partition which would limit it to only about 425 yards if fired from my short barreled .308.

I also understand that hunters/shooters get defensive about their bullets of choice, I'm no different but this testng has really opened my eyes to how bullets perform at long range. It looks to me that manufacturers focus on performance at traditional ranges and 0-200 yards these bullets do just that. Once ranges extend though all bets are off.

Even Nosler who I respect for their honesty and attempts to help hunters select the best bullet for their applications don't show you how the bullets really look at these lower impact velocities. Here for instance is the 165 grain Nosler BallisticTip at 2200 top and 1800 FPS bottom, this translates to 250 and 500 yards with my 16.5" 308.


Noslers Photos

OPTIMUM PERFORMANCE VELOCITY:
Minimum: 1800 fps (549 mps)
Maximum: 3200 fps (975 mps)

My Photos

 

[lancetkenyon]

After the 1st seating depth test this morning, I called it good....Ryan Pierce makes a mean rifle.

 

[SilverbulletMAG]

After the 1st seating depth test this morning, I called it good....Ryan Pierce makes a mean rifle.

Next time take more than a single shot. (great looking group!)

 

[lightshooter]

Oh definitely. But these days I'm trying to restrain from that. I've shot out at least 3/4 of a barrel's life on multiple rifles, just trying to tweak my load and to get a super low SD. Now I have to get new barrels and start the process over. So now I'm trying to be more efficient. Choose the bullet I want to shot and stick with it, search the internet for known good loads to pick powder, choose my charge weight in 2 sessions for that given bullet, then on to seating depthfor 1 session, and done.
What I think could be helpful is a lab radar. I'm not sure since I haven't used one, but I feel my chrony is inconsistent under different lighting situations.

 

[window licker]

I look for a .5 moa and a single digit standard deviation. .2-.4 loads are great, but as soon as you take it off the bench and into the field, that .2 gun becomes a 1 moa rifle or more anyway. Been in the precision rifle game for a while now, and I havent met anyone that can hold a 1 moa or better in a field type scenario.

 

[Stokesrjsr]

Oh definitely. But these days I'm trying to restrain from that. I've shot out at least 3/4 of a barrel's life on multiple rifles, just trying to tweak my load and to get a super low SD. Now I have to get new barrels and start the process over. So now I'm trying to be more efficient. Choose the bullet I want to shot and stick with it, search the internet for known good loads to pick powder, choose my charge weight in 2 sessions for that given bullet, then on to seating depthfor 1 session, and done.
What I think could be helpful is a lab radar. I'm not sure since I haven't used one, but I feel my chrony is inconsistent under different lighting situations.

I've used quite a few optical chronographs with as you suspect, inconsistent results. Then I moved to a Magnetospeed and found that many of the loads I had developed were much tighter than my optical chronographs led me to believe. But the magnetospeed was inefficient in that I had to develop for accuracy independent of gathering data due to barrel harmonics influenced by the magnetospeed hanging there. Then I got a prototype Lab Radar on the first test run of production and still have it now and it is the most useful piece of shooting gear I own. Many loads that my optical based chronographs indicated were two digit SDs are now low single digit SDs, like 4 fps or so.
The only problem with the Lab radar is getting the trigger sensitivity set right so that it hears your rifle and not your neighboring bench rifle. I shoot with a suppressor at public ranges often and it can be aggravating to get the trigger level set so my shots are recorded and the guy with a short barreled, braked, AR isn't polluting my data. But if I'm by myself or a few benches away from the blaster types, it works like a dream.

 

[SilverbulletMAG]

Stokesrjsr, I keep seeing reports like yours and see a labradar as a good investment and something I need to get my hands on sooner rather than later. My prochrono has been "sufficient" but only telling part of the story and half truths (most likely).lol

 

[brentc]

After the 1st seating depth test this morning, I called it good....Ryan Pierce makes a mean rifle.

Next time take more than a single shot. (great looking group!)

Yeah Lance, one shot groups don't count.

 

[jasonco]

I'm done when I enter data on the ballistic device...pew----------->TING!

 

[littlewhaler]

Oh definitely. But these days I'm trying to restrain from that. I've shot out at least 3/4 of a barrel's life on multiple rifles, just trying to tweak my load and to get a super low SD. Now I have to get new barrels and start the process over. So now I'm trying to be more efficient. Choose the bullet I want to shot and stick with it, search the internet for known good loads to pick powder, choose my charge weight in 2 sessions for that given bullet, then on to seating depthfor 1 session, and done.
What I think could be helpful is a lab radar. I'm not sure since I haven't used one, but I feel my chrony is inconsistent under different lighting situations.

Lab Radar really improved my chrono sessions..easy set up with ability to set bullet weight, diameter, distance you want to get a reading with great accuracy. I like the MV reading and the 100 yd setting since they each have value to reload hunters. Most reload tables in reload books list the expected velocity for given powder loads and bullet which is usually a MV velocity. Important to know how you compare to book values for safe reloading and a hunter likes to know how much velocity he has at 100 yds for a given bullet and powder since it will show how much velocity loss over a given distance. This can also be compared against tables in some reload books to see if you are in the ballpark of expected values for a specific range usually out to 500 yds or more. Lab Radar enhanced my reload skills, expertise as a hunter vs what I was capable of with my beta chrony set up. I used the beta chronies for years and finally took the leap to Lab Radar. Very rewarding once I was comfortable with its capabilities. Learned it on my own, instructions very good. Also some good videos out there. Most reloaders will agree if you reload you need a chronograph to log your loads and measure performance. Lab Radar does this and more with many useful features.

 

[jasonco]

Lab Radar really improved my chrono sessions..easy set up with ability to set bullet weight, diameter, distance you want to get a reading with great accuracy. I like the MV reading and the 100 yd setting since they each have value to reload hunters. Most reload tables in reload books list the expected velocity for given powder loads and bullet which is usually a MV velocity. Important to know how you compare to book values for safe reloading and a hunter likes to know how much velocity he has at 100 yds for a given bullet and powder since it will show how much velocity loss over a given distance. This can also be compared against tables in some reload books to see if you are in the ballpark of expected values for a specific range usually out to 500 yds or more. Lab Radar enhanced my reload skills, expertise as a hunter vs what I was capable of with my beta chrony set up. I used the beta chronies for years and finally took the leap to Lab Radar. Very rewarding once I was comfortable with its capabilities. Learned it on my own, instructions very good. Also some good videos out there. Most reloaders will agree if you reload you need a chronograph to log your loads and measure performance. Lab Radar does this and more with many useful features.

The difference between a Shooting Chrony and the LabRadar or Magneto Speed is light years!

 

[okie man]

Until recently I've never spent more than $700 on a rifle.the most expensive scope I own is under $400 I've never used expensive dies, usually rcbs fl dies. I try too cap my bullet budget at $40 a box. That said I've been able too break 1 moa in all but one rifle. A 18" barreled 444 marlin lever gun. Everything I'm loading for right now will shoot better than I can consistently shoot! I have a new rifle I've only put 25 rounds down the tube . It's best group with me shooting it is 1/2 moa. I have high hopes it will be a 1/4 moa gun but if it isn't I'm happy with what I have right now.