are carbon fiber barrels the wave of the future?

Rhovee

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Alex Wheeler chucked up numerous carbon and steel barrels in his lathe. Attached a 10 pound weight on the end and measured deflection for the test. You know. Real measurements. Not something the internet or manufacture says. I own a few carbon barrels. They have there place. But not in matches. I like Bartlien carbons cause they have more steel than proof.
 
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phorwath

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Carbon fiber barrels cool so well, I understand they install them in blast freezers to reduce electrical costs. At least that's what the manufacturer claims. According to what was posted on an AC forum. Don't ask me to explain it.

Another guy stated they keep hot things hot and cold things cold. So I asked how do they know? I mean whether to keep thIngs hot versus cold. Said he wasn't certain, but they do seem to be programmed with that ability.

It all got me to thinking if I bought a few, maybe they could replace my worn out air conditioning system. Seem like with no moving parts, the maintenance costs would be quite low. And they last forever, right? No corrosion...

Still, I have a some concerns before committing funds. What if the house gets too cold. Would I just remove one barrel at a time until the temp was just right? Even more concerning, what if they really don't know hot from cold, and decide to keep the house hot. Now that would be a real problem if I was away on vacation! And solving that one would be a real brain teaser. My son works in the AC field, so I asked him what he thought. His head canted sideways like curious, inquisitive dogs heads occassionally do, just before he went cross-eyed. Right then and there I understood it must not be good. So I'm holding off for now...
 
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A/C Guy

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If you read the link I posted, you would know that carbon fiber can be used as either an thermal insulator or as a conduit for thermal transfer; depends upon the specific blend of materials.
Quite a versatile material.
 

Rhovee

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I have “heard” it’s the amount of epoxy a company uses for there process can make a big difference in heat
 

phorwath

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If you read the link I posted, you would know that carbon fiber can be used as either an thermal insulator or as a conduit for thermal transfer; depends upon the specific blend of materials.
Quite a versatile material.
A/C Guy,
Do you happen to know which one of those the carbon fiber barrel manufacturers are using? If so, how do you know? I mean, your posts are infused with such confidence.

Knowing what is theoretically possible with carbon fiber tells us nothing about what we're actually receiving in any carbon fiber wrap (CFW) barrel. Thermal conductivity coefficients, on the other hand, tell us EVERYTHING we need to know about their heat transfer properties and capabilities.

So, can you provide the thermal conductivity coefficients of the CFW material being used by the CFW barrel manufacturers? If you provide that number, I'll calculate and provide the cooling efficiency of the CFW portion of those barrels compared to plain carbon steel and or stainless steel barrels. With accuracy equal to the accuracy of those CFW thermal conductivity coefficients. It's not rocket science for me, an engineer with substantial heat transfer education and practice. You provide the thermal conductivity coefficients, and I'll calculate how efficient, or deficient, their CFW materials are.

If there are two different coefficients, one for longitudinal heat transfer and one for radial heat transfer, please provide both coefficients.

FYI, and this may be a huge shocker to you, the last time a Christiansen Arms rep provided a thermal conductivity coefficient to one of our members for their CFW media, it was 3-4 times LESS efficient shedding heat than plain steel. That rep has probably been fired since then.

No other manufacturer has provided a heat transfer coefficient for their CFW, to the best of my knowledge. Go figure...

Which prompts the question, how do you know whether or not any of the currently manufactured CFW rifle barrels transfer heat more efficiently than solid steel barrels? You simply a believer in the company sales literature? Because unless you've conducted some defensible testing of your own, can provide independent heat transfer testing reports, or can provide documented thermal conductivity coefficients, I can't imagine how you could know anything more than what we've been fed by the manufacturers. Is your source of information the individuals being paid to promote a company product? The promotional literature prepared to pump up product sales?

So it boils down to this..., will the companies making the sensational claims of super-cooling CFW barrels share their thermal conductivity coefficients? They either have them or they don't. If they don't, then they can't possibly know how well their barrels shed heat.

I'd like to settle this heat transfer debate. Would you? How about the companies promoting sales of their CFW barrels, with claims of super-cooling benefits?

I will suggest that up until know, they're either 1) unable to provide their CFW media heat transfer coefficients because they themselves haven't paid a third party testing company/laboratory to establish them or, 2) they're unwilling to provide the data.

So far, I don't see where you've demonstrated you know anything more than I, or anyone else posting in this thread, of the heat transfer capability of ANY CFW barrel currently in production. I don't see that changing until, and unless, you explain how it is you're the one in the know. If you've got the prerequisite data, share it here with the interested forum membership. Share those heat transfer coefficients. Show me I'm wrong. I'll be waiting...
 
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A/C Guy

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Lighthouse at sniper's hide posted a chart provided by Proof Barrels that showed actual temperatures and rates of cooling.
Why do people like you always need everything spoon fed to them?
Your computer has an app called Bing search and Google search
Try putting your questions in their search boxes and you will find dozens of references. That would be far more helpful that posting questions with such a cynical attitude here.
Your replies thus far seem like you are taking personal offense to the mere suggestion that new technology with modern materials can produce a better widget. Why should you care whether or not a carbon fiber wrapped barrel works better or not? Does it make your solid steel barrels any less effective? I know that my steel barrels do not care that I bought a rifle with a CF wrapped barrel; it hasn't affected their performance in any way. I do not care whether your steel barrel is better or not than carbon fiber. Someone asked a question regarding the suitability of carbon fiber wrapped barrels and I simple posted easily found accurate information which for some reason upsets you and causes you to attack me personally as if I have some agenda to promote.
I posted links earlier, try clicking and reading, you might learn something.
Want more information? Try that search feature in your browser. There is easily a weeks worth of reading material available for those that want to expand their knowledge base.
 
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A/C Guy

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I have “heard” it’s the amount of epoxy a company uses for there process can make a big difference in heat
I've worked with carbon fiber on my race cars. You never use more than the minimum amount of epoxy because the epoxy itself is the weakest part of the compound (the same is true when working with fiberglass). More resin used = a weaker finished product that is likely to crack. You can always tell how much experience a person has with those materials simply by looking at how much excessive resin was used.
Most commercial fabricators use either a vacuum method to draw the epoxy into the fibers or they use pre-pregged mat and bake it. There are YouTube videos showing both methods if you want to see the Hows and Whys.
 

phorwath

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Lighthouse at sniper's hide posted a chart provided by Proof Barrels that showed actual temperatures and rates of cooling.
Why do people like you always need everything spoon fed to them?
Your computer has an app called Bing search and Google search
Try putting your questions in their search boxes and you will find dozens of references. That would be far more helpful that posting questions with such a cynical attitude here.
Your replies thus far seem like you are taking personal offense to the mere suggestion that new technology with modern materials can produce a better widget. Why should you care whether or not a carbon fiber wrapped barrel works better or not? Does it make your solid steel barrels any less effective? I know that my steel barrels do not care that I bought a rifle with a CF wrapped barrel; it hasn't affected their performance in any way. I do not care whether your steel barrel is better or not than carbon fiber. Someone asked a question regarding the suitability of carbon fiber wrapped barrels and I simple posted easily found accurate information which for some reason upsets you and causes you to attack me personally as if I have some agenda to promote.
I posted links earlier, try clicking and reading, you might learn something.
Want more information? Try that search feature in your browser. There is easily a weeks worth of reading material available for those that want to expand their knowledge base.
So you have no data from any manufacturer? Or you choose to keep that to yourself.

At least now I know the basis for your positive and promotional posts. You've subscribed to the manufacturers' sales literature on their barrel cooling rates. Promoted that feature here, and continue to, without any of the prerequisite verification data. If that meets your accountability standards, and encourages you to repeat their sales pitch, good for you. Do you expect, or demand, that others also accept that literature at face value? When I identify the CFW material specification needed to verify the manufacturers' heat transfer claims, why the surprise and defensiveness? Between the two or us, if anyone's defensiveness has turned offensive, it's yours.

I currently own, shoot, and hunt with a Proof CFW barrel. And ordered two Bartlein CFW barrels in the past two weeks. One is with my gunsmith now. Will replace a SS barrel on one of my rifles. So you're wrong about that too.

You've referenced Christensen, and suggested their CFW is likely based on the best of the best. Straight out of the mission to Mars space industry. I tell you Christensen's staff engineer provided a forum member with a heat transfer coefficient that demonstrates their CFW will cool 3-4 times slower than steel. You never skip a beat. Your drum roll continues.

Thanks for at least clarifying you have no CFW specs upon which to base your effusive and positive CFW barrel cooling posts. I'll let you carry on now. Enjoy yourself...
 
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A/C Guy

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Don't twist my words, I never said Christensen used the best of the best. Read what I wrote and stop twisting words. In case your mother forget to tell you, twisting words is telling a blatant lie.

I told you where to see the chart of data. Are you too lazy to Google it?
Are you too lazy to go to sniper's hide and read it?

Like I said, people like you want to be spoon fed. In that case, go ask your mommy.
 

Backcountry sports

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Alex Wheeler chucked up numerous carbon and steel barrels in his lathe. Attached a 10 pound weight on the end and measured deflection for the test. You know. Real measurements. Not something the internet or manufacture says. I own a few carbon barrels. They have there place. But not in matches. I like Bartlien carbons cause they have more steel than proof.
There good but for hunting not shooting range
 

bdyal1972

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Jun 24, 2012
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No where near the woods. I miss it
$700.00 barrel on a $300.00 rifle.Lipstick on a pig.

Maybe lipstick on a pig....

But



7 DIFFERENT quarter minute 5 shot loads in the one I got to play with....

WITH A OLD USED HORUS VISION 4-16, USED APPLIED BALLISTICS COMPUTER USED BUSHNELL RANGEFINDING BINOCULARS AND USED KESTROL....

HAD A PREVIOUS 300 YARD max EAST COAST shooter RINGING STEEL CONFIDENTLY AT 1500 YARDS IN 4 WEEKS INCLUDING A ROCKCHUCKER, DIES, BRASS, POWDER AND BULLETS AND RANGEFINDER!!!!

FOR LESS THAN $2500

TOTAL...

GOT IT BLOODY 2 WEEKS AGO...

3X3 MULIE

29 FEET!!!

BUT HE WAS READY FOR 700 YARDS!!!

LOL
 

bdyal1972

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Jun 24, 2012
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248
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No where near the woods. I miss it
You can think of a spiral fluted barrel as being a small diameter barrel wrapped in cosmetic flutes. With a straight fluted barrel, the flutes are structural load carrying elements.

These are generalizations, but basically true.

With the CF, the carbon wrap acts in a composite manner with the steel core. They both contribute strength. I would think the main two stresses would be bursting and bending. The CF wrap can be oriented at different angles to add bursting strength or to add stiffness. So 2 CF wraps, each with the same fiber and f/r ratio, could have drastically different properties because of differences in fiber orientation.



BTW



I KNOW OF 7 DIFFERENT WAYS COMPANIES ARE CF WRAPPING BARRELS....

EACH METHOD SHEDS HEAT DIFFERENTLY, EACH ONE SUPPORTS DIFFERENT LOAD BEARING SPECICS AS WELL AS HARMONIC DAMPENING....

BEST I HAVE PERSONALLY SHOT WAS A KRIEGER WRAPPED BY PROOF 30" LONG 11/2" DIAMETER FULL LENGTH IN A 404/6.5 WILDCAT..... 168 LATHE TURNED 800G1BC 450?G7BS BULLETS AT ALMOST 3900FPS

SHOT LIKE A LIGHTNING BOLT

FIRST ELK BACK RIGHT HIP TO FRONT LEFG SHOULDER WITH 2" EXIT WOULD....

NOT MY FIRST PICK FOR ELK...

HOWEVER

FOR 2 LEGGED VARMINTS MAKES THE 300 NORMA LOOK FAT AND SLOW OUT TO 1500 OR 1600 METERS...
 

gpo1956

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Hot Springs, Ar
So you have no data from any manufacturer? Or you choose to keep that to yourself.

At least now I know the basis for your positive and promotional posts. You've subscribed to the manufacturers' sales literature on their barrel cooling rates. Promoted that feature here, and continue to, without any of the prerequisite verification data. If that meets your accountability standards, and encourages you to repeat their sales pitch, good for you. Do you expect, or demand, that others also accept that literature at face value? When I identify the CFW material specification needed to verify the manufacturers' heat transfer claims, why the surprise and defensiveness? Between the two or us, if anyone's defensiveness has turned offensive, it's yours.

I currently own, shoot, and hunt with a Proof CFW barrel. And ordered two Bartlein CFW barrels in the past two weeks. One is with my gunsmith now. Will replace a SS barrel on one of my rifles. So you're wrong about that too.

You've referenced Christensen, and suggested their CFW is likely based on the best of the best. Straight out of the mission to Mars space industry. I tell you Christensen's staff engineer provided a forum member with a heat transfer coefficient that demonstrates their CFW will cool 3-4 times slower than steel. You never skip a beat. Your drum roll continues.

Thanks for at least clarifying you have no CFW specs upon which to base your effusive and positive CFW barrel cooling posts. I'll let you carry on now. Enjoy yourself...
If you ever get a tattoo might I suggest “Persistence Trumps Resistance”?
 

bdyal1972

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Jun 24, 2012
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248
Location
No where near the woods. I miss it
Why not try an experiment. Take two rifles same caliber, same load and bullet weight. One steel and one CF. Fire 6 rounds thru the CF and immediately put a temp probe down the barrel, bolt closed. Do the same with the steel barrel also bolt closed. Leave the probe in on both and record initial temp and temp at 1 minute intervals out to say 5 mins. That should answer the question. I don't own a CF barrel or I would do it. If anyone does I'd be interested to know the results.

Us army was doing this in 80s and 90s

GWOT saw the tier1 and tier 2 guys getting cf wrapped m4s, m24s, m40s etc etc etc

Nuff said
 

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