Advice Sought on Scope Measurement System Choice

[FiatFreak]

I'm new to the forum.

I'm about to acquire a high-end scope for my "dream rifle" I recently bought: Sako 85 Varmint Stainless in .243 Winchester. It's my second Sako rifle. Next project will be mounting a scope, the brand and specifications for which I've already chosen. Now that I'm easing into retirement, I hope to do some long-range shooting, simply because it fascinates me. Varmint hunting is high on my list of goals.

I've been doing a lot of research over the past few years in anticipation of acquiring this rifle, and of course, the "MIL vs. MOA" optic option has been one of my most intense areas of research. I believe I understand all the ramifications between the two measurement systems, and I've read a good number of posts on this forum that address the subject, so there's no need for me to ask more of the same questions that have already been asked and answered here...except for one. I read somewhere (can't find the source now) that simply stated that MRAD was superior in one respect: "ease of use." I recall the author claiming that use of MRAD measurement is just plain easier when calculating shot placement. I'm not exactly sure why that's so, and it might be nothing more than an opinion, regardless of facts. If anyone cares to enlighten me, I sure would appreciate it. Before I spend some big bucks on a scope and range-finding binoculars, I'd like a little more input before I "pull the trigger," figuratively and literally!

Thanks for any guidance anyone cares to share.

Robert
Southeastern PA, USA

 

[Mark37082]

I'm sure some of the experts will chime in with a technical explanation. If you are planning to go to a Long Range Shooting school, it will most likely benefit in communicating with a spotter, etc. I have always used MOA based scopes and use ballistic apps in MOA. It is just what I am familiar with. What scopes are you looking at?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Mil is "easier" because your brain is wired to think in base 10, and for wind holds. Where in SE pa do you shoot? https://www.recoilweb.com/wind-wizardry-bc-wind-formula-for-long-range-shooting-154618.html

 

[HSmithTX]

I prefer Mil, honestly one of my all time favorite things to do is go shoot stuff. See a rock on the side of ridge, guesstimate how big it is looking at things around it, measure it in the reticle, calculate distance, and shoot the rock. Mils make all that easier because it's 10 base math, and I have a mildot master slide rule LOL. The downside of mil to my mind is that the adjustments aren't as fine as MOA, .25 vs .36 MOA but I can tell you it's never caused a problem because I don't own any rifles that will shoot inside the difference at 1000 nor can I hold inside that difference making it a mental downside and not an actual problem.

 

[FiatFreak]

I'm sure some of the experts will chime in with a technical explanation. If you are planning to go to a Long Range Shooting school, it will most likely benefit in communicating with a spotter, etc. I have always used MOA based scopes and use ballistic apps in MOA. It is just what I am familiar with. What scopes are you looking at?

Thanks for your quick and kind reply. I intend to buy a TRACT TORIC 4.5-30X56 34mm MRAD ELR Rifle Scope.
Yeah, I know...there are plenty of high-end scopes out there, and this is a fantastic piece of kit for the money. I've had several in-person conversations with the owners of this company (their headquaters is near my home) and users of their scopes. TRACT's business model is impressive. Not a single negative word has been heard by me regarding TRACT Optics in over two years of researching, and I've communicated with custom builders that have nothing but good things to say about these scopes. Right now, the problem is, their MRAD version of this scope is on back-order until around July of this year! It sold out just before I was finally ready to buy.

Thanks for your input.

 

[FiatFreak]

Mil is "easier" because your brain is wired to think in base 10, and for wind holds. Where in SE pa do you shoot? https://www.recoilweb.com/wind-wizardry-bc-wind-formula-for-long-range-shooting-154618.html

Apart from the nearby gun club to which I belong (only 100 yards max...but I do a lot of handgun shooting at the 25-yard ranges there), I have yet to find any long-range facilities in SE PA. I sure desire to find some just about anywhere in PA and/or surrounding states. My big goal is to travel out west to do some varmint hunting and perhaps some mountain and/or plains game.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

The slcfsa has rifle ranges to 300 yards and is close to my house, I was hoping you knew a place with longer opportunities.

 

[FiatFreak]

The slcfsa has rifle ranges to 300 yards and is close to my house, I was hoping you knew a place with longer opportunities.

At first, I didn't know what "slcfas" is. I searched for it and found it. Fact is, it is of no consequence to me because, according to its website, membership is closed for 2022 and indicates that fees for 2023 are yet to be determined. Bummer. I'd join right now if I could.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

yeah, the last membership orientation was last weekend, but members are allowed 3 shooting guests at a time. if you're close by let me know.

 

[Recon$$]

Prefer mils, you can't go wrong either way. I own both, learn whichever you pick and go shoot. Mil vs moa debate will go on forever. Just get a reticle that supports what you are doing.

 

[FiatFreak]

yeah, the last membership orientation was last weekend, but members are allowed 3 shooting guests at a time. if you're close by let me know.

Thanks for the information. I wasn't aware of that club, and now that I am aware, I guess it's too late to join. I'm not certain exactly where you are, but if you're a member there, I assume your somewhere in the area near that club and not all that far from me. I'm in Coatesville, Chester County, thirty miles east of the club, so in a sense, I actually am "in the area." To me, I would gladly make a 30-mile drive to do some long-range shooting!

Once I get my optics mounted and set up the rifle/scope at the 100 yard range at my club (West Caln Sportmen's Club), I'd like to take the rig out to longer ranges to fine-tune it. In PA, as you know, we don't usually have the long-range shooting areas like you'll find in the mid-western parts of the USA. Until I get a scope mounted on my new Sako, I can only just look at the rifle...LOL. Back in January, I could have purchased the scope I wanted , but at that time, I was still looking for the rifle and unsure I could find it. Now that I have the rifle, the scope is unavailable! ****! My plan now is to get a new scope for my Sako L61 but mount it temporarily on my new Sako 85, just so I can put some rounds through it and start to work with it. When the TRACT scope I really want is back in stock, I'll mount it on the Sako 85 and move the "temporary" scope to my Sako L61. At least that's my plan. I'm anxious to get shooting, but in no hurry. Good things come to those who wait!

Thanks for reaching out and communicating with me!

 

[FiatFreak]

Prefer mils, you can't go wrong either way. I own both, learn whichever you pick and go shoot. Mil vs moa debate will go on forever. Just get a reticle that supports what you are doing.

Thanks for your input. I've never considered Mil vs. MOA as a "debate," but more of a personal preference. Angular measurement is angular measurement, regardless of the numbering system used to define such measuring. With all the fine equipment available nowadays (such as laser rangefinders), I agree that one can't go wrong either way. I can certainly understand what you're saying "pick/learn/go shoot." Absolutely! Thanks again.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

@FiatFreak Send me a pm and I will give you my phone number, I'm looking for excuses to go shooting.

 

[JungleShooter]

With a gun in my hands I have a lot on my mind. And simpler numbers (no fractions), shorter numbers, and no conversion from decimals to fractions when dialing (2.7 ➔ 2¾) help me keep my mind on target.

Compare the differences in numbers on the sample dope chart below: Which are easier to keep in your head when getting ready for the shot, which are easier to dial?

Just something practical to consider....

You can't go wrong with either system.
And finding the perfect rifle—scope—ammo setup... — well, that will require a relocation — because earth ain't perfect (not after we humans messed with it).
(There is hope though: I do believe I will get to shoot guns in heaven, or something even more fun.)


Matthias