6 Dasher will outperform .50 Cal at Long Range.

[Greatgrandad]

Yes. I'm familiar. They're also not shooting Barrett M107s or 82s either like in the video.

I began with an 82 back in the early 90's, but then progressed through a couple of bolt action and singles. A lot of long sniper shots, some over 2,000yds, have been made with the M107/M82A1 in the recent wars.

Notable extreme-distance kills using the Barrett M107/M82A1 include:

• • 2,815 meters (3,079 yards): An Australian sniper from the 2nd Commando Regiment made this shot during the War in Afghanistan in April 2012 using a Barrett M82A1, setting a world record at the time.
  • 2,300 meters (2,515 yards): U.S. Army Sergeant Brian Kremer from the 2nd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, recorded this kill in October 2004 during the Iraq War using a Barrett M82A1.
  • 2,092 meters (2,288 yards): U.S. Army Specialist Nicholas Ranstad achieved this shot in January 2008 in Afghanistan using a Barrett M107.

 

[buckbrush]

I began with an 82 back in the early 90's, but then progressed through a couple of bolt action and singles. A lot of long sniper shots, some over 2,000yds, have been made with the M107 in the recent wars..

I had an M99 for a few years. With handloaded spent M2 brass and 750 A-maxes it was about a 1.5 MOA rifle. There wasn't much in the way of a 50 cal suppressor at the time or I may have kept it around.

 

[Greatgrandad]

I had an M99 for a few years. With handloaded spent M2 brass and 750 A-maxes it was about a 1.5 MOA rifle. There wasn't much in the way of a 50 cal suppressor at the time or I may have kept it around.

Ugh.....1.5MOA?

 

[Hugnot]

A good flick to watch - Sniper: White Raven - This gets into use with various calibers comparing "ballistic advantage" and the best being the 12.7mm or .50 BMG with 2,000 yard kills.
I watched the movie 4 times despite increased depression but learned more each time. Raven was intially issued a crappy SKS but later used better.

 

[yobuck]

During WW2 the Army had what were called multiple mounts of 4 50 calibers. They were mounted on 2 and 1/2 ton trucks.
The gunner sat between them, 2 at eye level and 2 lower, all fired simultainasly.
I was in small arms ordnance, NJNG for almost 9 years from mid fifties, and we trained at Camp Drum, now called Fort Drum, in upstate NY, not far from Lake Ontario.
They would line these things up on the shoreline near the town of Oswego, maybe a dozen of them side by side.
And they shot at small radio controlled aircraft with about a 10 ft wingspan.
The aircraft was controlled by a guy with a box on the hood of a WW2 Jeep.
So the thing would start out off say to the left, then fly past the guns while the guy controlling tried to outmaneuver the guns.
The mounts could rotate, and elevate, with all 4 50s blasting away at the same time.
If the plane got hit a parachute came out and the order to cease fire was given.
They went out and rescued the damaged plane and rebuilt it.
One day there was an all black outfit out there from north Jersey.
Their CO was standing next to our shop van which was parked in the shade.
Nice guy, we had given him a few cold sodas from our ice chest.
Anyway they couldnt hit that thing to save their butt, probably over an hour it went on, you could hear those boys talking. lol
Finally they hit it, the chute came out and a cease fire order given.
But there was no stopping those boys, the lead just kept on flying.
Parachute and everything got riddled, to the point they didnt even bother sending the boat out.
Even their CO was laughing about it.
Imagine shooting 50s out over Lake Ontario today near the town of Oswego.
We got to replace lots of barrels on those fifties, turn them in tight and then back off 4 clicks for the headspace.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

...your comparing apples and oranges, one is designed for accuracy the other for penetration and killing...the Dasher in most hands, out to 1200 would produce better groups, I'd bet, but could never in 10 million years penetrate or kill at any distance better...

 

[Little Church Mouse]

During WW2 the Army had what were called multiple mounts of 4 50 calibers. They were mounted on 2 and 1/2 ton trucks.
The gunner sat between them, 2 at eye level and 2 lower, all fired simultainasly.
I was in small arms ordnance, NJNG for almost 9 years from mid fifties, and we trained at Camp Drum, now called Fort Drum, in upstate NY, not far from Lake Ontario.....Imagine shooting 50s out over Lake Ontario today near the town of Oswego...."

Yikes, what did those guys get for hearing protection?

The Environmentalist folks would not be happy about all that lead going into the water, although that probably stopped 50+ years ago.

 

[Greatgrandad]

...your comparing apples and oranges, one is designed for accuracy the other for penetration and killing...the Dasher in most hands, out to 1200 would produce better groups, I'd bet, but could never in 10 million years penetrate or kill at any distance better...

In most hands out to 1200? I am not so sure. Wind reading is one of the biggest factors at true LR, and given the vast difference in BC between the two bullets, I believe many shooters are going to have a lot more blown wind calls (Pun intended). Just a couple of examples to consider -

50 cal 750gr A-Tip 1.050 G1 BC
50 cal Barnes 800gr 1.095 G1 BC
6mm 110gr A-Tip 0.604 G1 BC
6mm 116gr TMK 0.609 G1 BC

"IF" it is a dead calm day, I might could see the 1,200yd advantage going to the 6mm Dasher "in most hands", but how many days do we shoot in zero wind out to 1,200? Just refer to my earlier post on 50 cal groups in 1,000yd BR.

 

[Tom264]

One is great for hunting various game the other destruction of large war machines.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

In most hands out to 1200? I am not so sure. Wind reading is one of the biggest factors at true LR, and given the vast difference in BC between the two bullets, I believe many shooters are going to have a lot more blown wind calls (Pun intended). Just a couple of examples to consider -

50 cal 750gr A-Tip 1.050 G1 BC
50 cal Barnes 800gr 1.095 G1 BC
6mm 110gr A-Tip 0.604 G1 BC
6mm 116gr TMK 0.609 G1 BC

"IF" it is a dead calm day, I might could see the 1,200yd advantage going to the 6mm Dasher "in most hands", but how many days do we shoot in zero wind out to 1,200? Just refer to my earlier post on 50 cal groups in 1,000yd BR.

If you believe bc calculates wind drift. I'm pretty sure bc only calculates the rate of velocity lost over distance. That ballistic coefficient does not remain the same over the entire flight path. bc has been extremely over marketed as a drift calculator. There is no formula for wind drift. Therefore we have tried to use the only calculation we have, that only calculates the time of flight, to try and calculate the wind drift.

 

[Huntaddict]

I've competed against a 50 cal at 600 yards, my little straight six BR shot way smaller groups and so did every person on that line shooting a smaller caliber.

It wasn't even close.

Yeah but a 50 cal only needs 1 shot the shoot the same group. The 6mm had to use 3

 

[Petey308]

Regarding BC and wind drift:

I think this is one of those topics where the wording matters.

I agree that BC itself doesn't directly calculate wind drift. It's fundamentally a measure of how a bullet responds to aerodynamic drag relative to a standard model.

Where I think confusion starts is when people conclude BC therefore has little to do with wind drift.

BC influences drag, drag influences how quickly velocity is lost, that affects lag time and time of flight, and those influence how long aerodynamic side forces act on the bullet. That's why ballistic solvers use drag characteristics (whether represented by BC or custom drag models) as part of predicting wind deflection.

So I'd say BC isn't a wind-drift equation, but it's one of the primary inputs that influences the trajectory used to calculate wind drift.

 

[FEENIX]

Regarding BC and wind drift:

I think this is one of those topics where the wording matters.

I agree that BC itself doesn't directly calculate wind drift. It's fundamentally a measure of how a bullet responds to aerodynamic drag relative to a standard model.

Where I think confusion starts is when people conclude BC therefore has little to do with wind drift.

BC influences drag, drag influences how quickly velocity is lost, that affects lag time and time of flight, and those influence how long aerodynamic side forces act on the bullet. That's why ballistic solvers use drag characteristics (whether represented by BC or custom drag models) as part of predicting wind deflection.

So I'd say BC isn't a wind-drift equation, but it's one of the primary inputs that influences the trajectory used to calculate wind drift.

LL! Brother, here's one that reinforces the BC and CDM use from the SME.

 

[Hugnot]

Running the Hornady 4DOF calculator that is independent of BC's, doppler radar,

50 BMG, 750 Hornady AMax ($$$$) at 2700 fps MV, 100 yard zero, 16 twist for 1.69 gyro at 100, 2.71 gyro at 1000
1000 yard, drop 275 inches, wind 39.5 inches, velocity 1787 fps, energy 5318 ft lbs.

6mm Dasher, 108 Hornady ELDM at 3000 MV, 100 yard zero, 7.5 twist for 1.91 gyro at 100, 4.16 gyro at 1000
1000 yard, drop 275 inches, wind 68.1 inches, velocity 1889 ftps, energy 855 ft lbs.

Sure looks like apples to oranges.

I don't know how Hornady calculates drop & wind between different velocities and gryo values, might be some regression analysis.

Take a look at my numbers for accuracy.