6.5 Creedmoor, VV N160 load development

[Jimbeaux82]

Guys,

I recently bought a Savage BA 10 Stealth in 6.5 Creedmoor and have started my load development. I know that H4350 is "THE" powder for 6.5 CM but finding it is another problem. I happen to have a very good supply of VV N160 so decided to try and work up a good load using it and see what happens. There is not a lot of data floating around for this powder but VV lists some data for 139 gr and 140 gr bullets and I had previously requested a QL run for this using 140 gr Nosler RDF bullets, so I have had some good guidelines to start with. I am in a long range shooting club where we are working our way to 1000 yards. This load will be for target shooting only. I have been shooting a nice 308 Tikka T3 Tac and done very well out to 600 yards, but trying it at 800 yds on a windy day was a humbling experience. Hence the purchase of the 6.5 CM, hoping to significantly better the wind bucking ability at 1000 yds. I am using my local range for load development which only has a 100 yd range. My target velocity is 2700 fps. Hornady 140 gr ELDM's shoot at 2695 fps in my rifle. Using a Hornady comparator, Bullet to lands length touching is 2.876", which happens to also be max mag length. Book length is 2.825" so I started with this. Using CCI BR-2 primers and new Hornady cases. Using 3 shot groups. So far am seeing some promising results as follows:

41.0 gr 2512 fps .775"
42.0 gr 2565 fps .475"
43.0 gr 2607 fps .960"
44.0 gr 2680 fps 1.725"
44.5 gr 2695 fps 2.265"
45.0 gr 2725 fps .740"

As you can see, 42.0 gave the best single group but velocity was low. 45.0 gr gave the velocity I wanted with a decent group. No pressure signs with the 45.0 gr load , primers look exactly like the Hornady ELDM and no ejector marks at all. 44.0 and 44.5 were 2 touching , 1 out (way out!). Conventional reloading wisdom says that I have room to seat out longer and probably tighten up the groups. So I loaded 44.0, 44.5 and 45.0 gr at 2.856" (touching minus .020"). All groups were in the 1.5" range including the 45.0 gr load. So now I intend to go the other direction, loading the 45.0 gr load at 2.805 and 2.825" to hopefully repeat my earlier group of .740" and see if deeper seating helps tighten up the groups. Will hopefully shoot those loads today or tomorrow.

I would like some advice from our board:

1) since I am using a 100 yd range only, is there any value in trying the OCW method? Most sources say shoot OCW at 200-300 yds.
2) for target use at 800-1000 yds only, assuming no other improvements are found, would you opt for the tighter groups at 42.0 gr (2565 fps, .475") or the greater velocity at 45.0 grs (2725 fps, .740") ?
3) any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Jimbeaux

 

[Shortmagman]

I found your post to be very interesting, since I have the same rifle and I have spent time working up a load that would shoot out to 600 ydsl

I have tried many different powders including H4350, but not N160. I have also tried many different bullets. I have even loaded the Nosler 140 RDF bullet but I have not shot it yet.

What has worked great is 140 Hornady Match bullets,BR2 primers, Hornady cases and Superformance powder COL of 2.825. I have only shot this load at 100 and 300 yards. It shot good at 100 and great at 300.(3 shot group .35 inches) (5 shots .9 inches)

I measured the velocity at 2720 ft/sec. so I am ready to take it out to 600 but my wife's hip replacement has prevented this for the last coupe of months.

I was surprised to see how well the Superformance powder worked. I used Hornaday data to work up the load. It shot best at the Max load listed 43.7 grains. Also because this powder is good only in certain calibers very few know about it and therefore I found it at a bargain price(less that half of N160) at one of my guns shops.

I would work with the 45.0 grain group as you suggested and see if changing the seating depth would tighten up the group. I have not shot at 1000 but I do feel that you need close to 2700 ft/sec for the best results.

 

[dsculley]

To answer your questions:

1) The OCW should be shot at 100 yds. That way wind is not an issue. If you want the best advice on how to run an OCW test go to the developer, Dan Newberry. You can find a good explanation of the process and instructions here: Home If you want some help reading your targets, you can post on Dan's forum here: Practical Riflery Forums... techniques and equipment of the practical rifleman... Forums

2) A bullet traveling faster is no advantage if you can't hit what you aim at. Use a good ballistics program and compare the results for both velocities and that should help you decide. With that said, your biggest obstacle to overcome will be your wind call. If you are shooting at square steel plates and can hold the same MOA at range, then you will have about the same number of hits with either. If you are shooting at round plates, you will have more misses with the .740" load

3) I would suggest that instead of guessing at a good seating depth, you run the Berger Seating Depth test. I just tried some Nosler RDF's and groups went from over an inch to three touching in the test. ( -.010, -.050 & -.130 were all an inch or larger groups, at -.090 all three were touching. This was a 6.5x47, IMR 4350). There are some strong feelings about which order this should be done on a lot of the forums, but I usually run the seating depth test with a mild charge, run an OCW with that. After deciding on a charge with the OCW, I will run another seating depth test to verify and tweak my final settings. (Some say you should run the OCW or Ladder before seating depth testing. You try both ways and see what works for you.)

After all this testing, the challenge then is to be as consistent as possible with your hand loading. Small differences in loading processes make for large differences in performance at long ranges.

One more comment (and this is not intended to hurt your feelings/question your ability) but when you see two rounds of a 3 round group touching and a third flier, the flier is usually either shooter induced or has a very different MV. Check the MV of the 3 and see if that accounts for the flier (2 with nearly identical MV and number 3 with a large difference).

 

[Jimbeaux82]

DSCULLEY,

I can assure you I am not offended by your remarks. It certainly could be my shooting technique as the velocities were very consistent. I am having to adjust a bit to the Savage Accutrigger. However, I re-shot the 44.0, 44.5 and 45.0 gr loads and got very similar results so I do think it is a seating depth issue/powder charge issue. I am going to focus for now on the 45.0 grain load. I will certainly try the Berger method and hope I get clear results like you have.

Again, thanks for the advice. Keep it coming.

Jimbeaux

 

[codyadams]

I second the berger method, especially for the eld's. I have loaded the .30 cal 200 in 2 rifles, 212, 7mm 162 in 2 rifles, 6.5mm 140 in 2 rifles, 143, and 147, and ALL of them preferred somewhat different seating depths, ranging from .090" off to .010" off.

I always run my seating depth test first, then load work up, all while chronographing.

 

[Jimmy007]

Hi Jimbeaux
We have the same rifle
I use VV 160 and 550

http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/6-5-creedmoor.html

 

[Jimmy007]

You can see than your reload are up of data base of VV

But friends of mines with RPR 6.5 CM reload until 44 gn for mid range

My best reload for 300 m ( 325 yds )

N160 : 38.3 gn / primers Fed 210 N / bullets Hornady Match 140 gn or Lapua Scénar 139 gn
Soon I'll try the new Hornady ELD 142 gn

 

[Jimmy007]

The Ramshot hunter powder gave the best result et 600 m whit 813 m/s

 

[Jimmy007]

Just care of the chamber of the rifle
Ruger rifle precision is not a Savage....

I'll try different brass ( even Lapua SR ) and I keep the Norma , for me they are the best

 

[Greyfox]

To answer your basic question, I would strive to reach a velocity in the 2700FPS range with .5MOA as the minimum. Your initial reason for moving to the CM imprive your ballistic performance over the 308.
Looking st your results, my first move would be to try a different bullet. Your powder looks like it can get you there with velocity. There are several excellent high BC options in the 140 gr weight range. I would try one if the well proven performers like the 140 Hornady ELDM, 142 SMK, Berger 140 Hybrid, 139 Scenar....

 

[Jimmy007]

The Lapua Scénar 139 grains with 44.8 gn Ramshot hunter give me 2667 ft/s

Target at 325 yds

 

[Jimmy007]

H 4350 , same bullet

Berger products are very expensive in France.....Lapua less...