6.5-06 AI 120gr Swift - Loads??

[Aldon]

Dan,

I am using Lapua Brass, 30-06 necked down, then fire formed, neck turned and twice fired and annealed. Federal 210 primers.

I have H100V and 7828SSC to try when I get replenished Swift bullets.

I may try one of these with 140 bergers just to see if the rifle will stabilize them. The velocities I was getting were running between 70-100 fps better than what the data was estimating it would, so in my whacked out logic, it might work.

I may also see if the Hornady 129 interbonds do better than these Swifts for accuracy.

Interesting that you also hit an accuracy node at 3200. I think I can work backwards and save some legwork as it seems to be a trend. One data point is a dot, two is a line and three data points are a trend

 

[Dano1]

Aldon,

You are certainly using the best brass available. lapua brass can handle higher pressures than the Winchester and Remington that I was using. this can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing in the same breath....3200FPS is pretty close to the max velocity for this bullet weight. It's also right at where the cartridge seems to pressure out. going past that seems to be running that fine line.... I'd start messing with seating depth to see if that would help the accuracy any.

I really hope that the 140g Bergers will shoot in your rifle. I went through 2 full boxes before I gave it up. Your "whacked out logic" is really not that out of line, by all serious reasoning and logical thinking you should have enough velocity to overcome the twist difficency. I thought the same thing. I guess that my rifle (also a Remington 700 with a 26" Shelin select match bbl) just wouldnt do it. I spent 2 years banging my head against the wall (I'm stubborn that way) trying to get them to shoot. I then bought my first box of 129g Hornady SSTs and the rifle grouped them with every powder charge I tried. The tightest group being with the RL-22. It liked them so much that I went out and bought 1000 bullets. I guess that we're committed to that bullet for a while.

If you continue with H4350, you may want to use Federal 215 magnum primers or CCI 250 Magnum primers as they help mitigate the possibility of inconsistant ingnition, or hang fires. They may also help tighten up that .75 MOA group.

Keep us posted, Sounds like lots of fun.

later,

Dan

 

[elkaholic]

Dan,

I am using Lapua Brass, 30-06 necked down, then fire formed, neck turned and twice fired and annealed. Federal 210 primers.

I have H100V and 7828SSC to try when I get replenished Swift bullets.

I may try one of these with 140 bergers just to see if the rifle will stabilize them. The velocities I was getting were running between 70-100 fps better than what the data was estimating it would, so in my whacked out logic, it might work.

I may also see if the Hornady 129 interbonds do better than these Swifts for accuracy.

Interesting that you also hit an accuracy node at 3200. I think I can work backwards and save some legwork as it seems to be a trend. One data point is a dot, two is a line and three data points are a trend

Hi Aldon.....you are probably getting higher velocities than the manual because Lapua brass tends to be thicker (less capacity) and you are getting higher pressures....Rich

 

[Trnelson]

I'd back off to the "starting load" for a standard 6.5/06 if you go with a magnum primer. Especially using the wonderful Lapua brass. As earlier noted it does tend to have less internal capacity. I tried W867 Surplus Powder (similar to AA8700) and needed the magnum primer to get that sawdust smoking. That stuff is wonderful in my 30/338 win mag with the 230 berger but i digress thats another thread. I had to reduce the powder charge by 2 full grains to get to a load that didn't have pressure issues when going from a federal 210 large rifle primer to the federal 215 magnum rifle primer. Velocity wasn't awesome or even anything to write home about with the 140 Berger vld or the 139 Lapua moly scenar but the ES was 15. As usual ymmv.

 

[Aldon]

Fed 215 did nothing for the 6.5AI load today.

I did try the same thing in my 280 hunting load that I have been simultaneously working up and it tightened the grouping just a bit. Already to good now borders really good.

Thanks for the input guys.

I will be careful with pressures due to brass choice as suggested.

 

[Aldon]

I tried the Berger 140's today and they worked well. I hit two accuracy nodes using H100 at ~ 2600 fps and at ~ 2800 fps but I am just starting to see pressure signs at 2800.

I may try H100V and see if my velocity goes up a bit, but for my purposes, 2800fps is ok if not the ideal.

The rifle is shooting less than .5 moa when it hits the nodes and I may do a bit better by tweaking the seating depth.

Also, these are jammed .001

So if accuracy improves by juming, my pressures should decrease a swell.




​

 

[loaders_loft]

I tried the Berger 140's today and they worked well. I hit two accuracy nodes using H100 at ~ 2600 fps and at ~ 2800 fps but I am just starting to see pressure signs at 2800.

I may try H100V and see if my velocity goes up a bit, but for my purposes, 2800fps is ok if not the ideal.

The rifle is shooting less than .5 moa when it hits the nodes and I may do a bit better by tweaking the seating depth.

Also, these are jammed .001

So if accuracy improves by juming, my pressures should decrease a swell.




​

What is your barrel length? my 26" barreled 260 shoots 139gr & 140 gr bullets at 2830with h4831sc.

By the way my experience has been that velocity drops a bit when shooting the same load slightly jumped, versus jammed

 

[Trnelson]

I may try H100V and see if my velocity goes up a bit, but for my purposes, 2800fps is ok if not the ideal.


I'd sure like to hear how that h100v runs with that 140 Berger. I run into pressure sooner than I'd like with mine running h4831sc. I'm surprised your not getting real close to 3,000 before encountering pressure with that splendid AI chamber. Oh well. Speed is nice but accuracy is king and safety trumps them both. YMMV

 

[Aldon]

So a couple of updates.

1) I initially thought I was getting some pressure signs at 2825 loads but that was bad/old eyes. I thought I saw ejector marks on head but once I started prepping the brass with good fluorescent light, that was not the case and primers looked good and no bolt issues etc. Plus the data on Hodgdon and Quik load seem to correlate/back this up.

2) I made it back to the range and I now know where max load is with this rifle bullet combo. 140 Bergers with H1000 I get just a very slight ejector shiny spot at 59.5 gr. I hit sticky bolt just beyond this charge abnd went back and looked more closely and identified the signs.

3) In my earlier trips to range, I would get 2 shots very close (overlapping) at node with one flyer 2-2.5 inches out of group. I sorted the Bergers by Ogive measurements and I shot several groups of varying measurements with no flyers. Too soon to bet my life on this observation but a couple more trips to range will solidify data. one data point is a point, two is a line and 3 a trend....looking for a trend before I add it to the repository of knowledge. LOL

4) I have to travel out of town for work so it may be a couple weeks before I can confirm but it looks like this rifle is going to settle in at about 2950 FPS....I have straddled that velocity and I believe like the 120Gr's that seem to hit sweet spot at 3200fps, this rifle is pointing towards 2950 and I have seen others hit their node similarly. I am getting excited about the accuracy I think this rifle will exhibit once I settle on a load.

 

[elkaholic]

I tried the Berger 140's today and they worked well. I hit two accuracy nodes using H100 at ~ 2600 fps and at ~ 2800 fps but I am just starting to see pressure signs at 2800.

I may try H100V and see if my velocity goes up a bit, but for my purposes, 2800fps is ok if not the ideal.

The rifle is shooting less than .5 moa when it hits the nodes and I may do a bit better by tweaking the seating depth.

Also, these are jammed .001

So if accuracy improves by juming, my pressures should decrease a swell.




​

Aldon....you should be able to top 2800 without pressure signs? I have never had any luck using mag primers in ANY of my 6.5's. By the way if you reform your case, you can reach 3150+ without pressure signs in the Sherman......Rich

 

[Aldon]

Thanks Rich! It is always in the back of my mind.

I have about given up on my first 6.5-06. I have chased accurate loads so long half the barrel life is gone. I believe that it was negatively affected by the heavy flutes that were on it. As I got the barrel second hand, I do not know if they were done by someone individually or by the manufacturer.

The last thing to try is full length bedding. Perhaps it is just whipping too much. It is on the list. Due to having about 300 rounds through it already, if I get this thing to shoot, I may set it back and SI it

Thanks for your feedback.

I got my eyes on that 30-375SI project you have going on. That is one SWEET rig!!!! I want one badly but have no real need for one out here in the east. But I rarely let need drive my plans and purchases. I would have a whole lot less rifles if I did. LOL

 

[elkaholic]

I may get some disagreement from folks but that is why I didn't flute my S.I. I was going for the very best accuracy I can get and even though proper fluting doesn't affect accuracy, it is one more thing that CAN. As far as setting your barrel back and chambering it in 6.5 Sherman, I wouldn't recommend it unless you first get it shooting well because it would be VERY unlikely to improve. There is something else going on there. It could be bedding, bad barrel, or the action/barrel are not square (IMO)...Rich

p.s. have you checked the crown?

 

[Aldon]

Ok, Time for another and likely last update.

I could get the 140's to 1 moa but just not good enough for semi custom and what I suspected the rifle could do.

I went to the 130 bergers and ended up finding a sweet spot Less than .5 moa, at 59.2 grains of H1000....should be around 2950 fps. Left the chrony home this time around. this is .002 into the lands.

So I will load some up and see if I can get repeatable results, which I see no reason not, and also try tweaking the seating depths to see if I can get that accuracy without jamming them. I prefer not to jam a hunting round.


Rich, I agree crown may be suspect. It is set up for brake and I may just have that removed and recrown it and set this up for a carry hunting rifle for my son if it shows adequate accuracy.

 

[Aldon]

A final update to close this thread in case someone trying to work up an -06AI does a search....

I went back and did some seating depth tests on teh load above and tweaked out a bit bore accuracy and now I do not have to worry about the bullet pulling out and dropping powder at end of unsuccessful day of hunting.

130 gr Berger, 59.2 H1000, Federal 210M primer, lapua brass, 2930 fps, Jump to lands was higher than I expected at .150. Less than .5 moa repeatable and 1st cold clean shot dead on. Sweet!!!