556 military brass resizing issue

[tailbon3]

So, I bought a 500 pack of once-fired 5.56 once fired military brass thinking I could easily resize it to 223 Rem. So far around 1/3 of the cases won't resize back to 223 dimensions. I am using a Lyman full-length sizing die and a Lee Breech-lock single stage press. I use this press to resize 300 wsm cases and 308 cases just fine. But the dang 5.56 cases are much tougher to resize. As I said, about 1/3 of them just won't size down to 223 dimensions. I press on the handle until I worry my press is going to rip off my bench or maybe bend the handle. I have tried running the unsizeable cases into the resizing die twice to see if that helps but it doesn't. They are about .002 or maybe .003 too long, measured in a Lyman headspace gauge. I can close the bolt but it's sticky.

My thoughts are:
Maybe my Lyman resizing die is too aggressive on body taper.?.
Maybe mil brass is just unreliable like this?
Anyone else had an issue with either mil-surp brass or lyman sizing dies?
Should I recycle the whole lot of brass? Or keep the cases that do resize?

 

[Pdvdh]

There's no way that much press handle force would be required to set a shoulder back 0.003". 5.56 brass is simply not that thick at the shoulder to generate that kind of resistance to being set back 0.003", in my opinion.

The only area of a case that could provide that kind of resistance is down near the case head, at the base of your resizing die. So I suspect your resizing die has a tight diameter dimension at its base, and your once fired casings were fired in a chamber that was larger than average.

Is this the first time you've resized .223 cases with this resizing die and shell holder? Are you certain your resizing die isn't bottoming out against the shell holder? If it is, there's a fix for that.

 

[Bart B]

Does the shell holder holding the case touch the bottom of the sizing die when the ram pushes the case and shell holder all the way up?

If not, then screw the die down 1/16th to 1/8th turn.

 

[bigedp51]

tailbon3

We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and no two reloading dies and rifle chambers are the same.

I do not use my Lyman full length .223 die because it sizes the case diameter smaller than my RCBS small base die. And when adjusted as per the instructions with the press reaching cam over it pushes the case shoulder back .009 shorter than my GO gauge. Meaning this Lyman die is in the "minus" side of the manufacturing world. I have several .223 dies of different manufacture and they all vary in how much they size my .223 cases.

That being said I buy once fired Lake City brass and the first time they are sized with a RCBS small base die. Some of these once fired cases require more effort to size because Lake City brass is harder in the base area than any other commercial .223 case. "BUT" no where near the effort you describe in your posting. Many new dies need polishing to lower the sizing effort but you "may" have a defective die that skipped the polishing operation during manufacture.

Questions.

At the top of the ram stroke can you see daylight between the bottom of the die and the shell holder?

Are you using Hornady one shot dry film case lube?

Is the resizing die new and did you clean the die as per the cleaning instructions. Many newer dies are using a dry film preservative and if not cleaned properly the preservative film will put the breaks on your sizing operation.

If needed you can lap the top of your shell holder to allow the case to be pushed further into the die. If your die keeps giving you problems I would recommend buying a Forster full length die with the high mounted expander that greatly reduces neck runout.

 

[barefooter56]

So, I bought a 500 pack of once-fired 5.56 once fired military brass thinking I could easily resize it to 223 Rem. So far around 1/3 of the cases won't resize back to 223 dimensions. I am using a Lyman full-length sizing die and a Lee Breech-lock single stage press. I use this press to resize 300 wsm cases and 308 cases just fine. But the dang 5.56 cases are much tougher to resize. As I said, about 1/3 of them just won't size down to 223 dimensions. I press on the handle until I worry my press is going to rip off my bench or maybe bend the handle. I have tried running the unsizeable cases into the resizing die twice to see if that helps but it doesn't. They are about .002 or maybe .003 too long, measured in a Lyman headspace gauge. I can close the bolt but it's sticky.

My thoughts are:
Maybe my Lyman resizing die is too aggressive on body taper.?.
Maybe mil brass is just unreliable like this?
Anyone else had an issue with either mil-surp brass or lyman sizing dies?
Should I recycle the whole lot of brass? Or keep the cases that do resize?

tailbon3,
This is a pretty common issue due to the fact that 5.56x45 chambers are on the large side to accommodate full auto operation and that issue is exacerbated by the cartridge case extraction starting before the cartridge has fully let go of the chamber walls before extraction starts. Which is also why you should full length size cartridge cases fired in a semi-auto rifle. The die(s) you have evidently will not compress the brass PAST the point where when the case "springs back" coming out of the die the dimensions stay small enough for the brass to chamber in YOUR rifle. When I do re-sizing on this type of brass I use a small base full length die. Now, a small base die doesn't indicate that ALL the internal dimensions of the die are smaller. Just the part that sizes the base of the cartridge case . In short, the cartridge case base MAY be sized to fit your chamber BUT the shoulder has not been bumped back enough to overcome the spring back issue or just isn't short enough to contact the shoulder of the cartridge case period. A good cartridge case gauge like an L.E. WILSON can help you determine just what the issue is. cartridge base or cartridge shoulder. If its the shoulder not being bumped back enough. You could have the bottom of the die faced of by .001-.002 and set it up so its touching the shell holder at full ram extension and size a couple pieces of brass and check them in your case gauge to see if they drop in and fit per the instructions (case head is between the upper and lower steps or even with the upper or lower steps . the other end checks the trim length and the case mouth should be flush if that,s correct). If the cartridge base is still to large after sizing to fit in the case gauge . You will probably have to try another small base die or get with the die manufacturer and see what they require to make you a die that will fix both issues at the same time during sizing. OR you can buy the pre-sized brass like TOP-BRASS etc and check them all with your case gauge to be sure of trim length and size being correct before loading. Using brass that has been fired in any rifle but yours can open a can of worms real fast as you have found out. I reload once fired 5.56x45 brass also but luckily I have 2 REDDING FULL LENGTH dies that address both issues.
Good luck!

 

[Bart B]

I do not use my Lyman full length .223 die because it sizes the case diameter smaller than my RCBS small base die. And when adjusted as per the instructions with the press reaching cam over it pushes the case shoulder back .009 shorter than my GO gauge. Meaning this Lyman die is in the "minus" side of the manufacturing world.

Back the die up in the press a few thousandths like most people do to set the fired case shoulder back only .003".

Such folks ignore those instructions supplied with dies. Been doing it for decades.

Or use a Redding competition shellholder of the right height to do that and have a smaller spread in sized case headspace.

 

[Pdvdh]

I suspect the base of the Lyman FL resizing die is bottoming out on the shell holder. That's about the only time I recall having experienced such large forces on my Rock Chucker press handle. And this was the result of me not paying attention to the obvious cause of the increasing forces required while screwing the full length resizing die in a little deeper in small incremental steps. I was trying to set the shoulders back another 0.001" or so.

Turned out my full length resizing die was a little longer than it should have been in order to set the shoulders back 0.003" on my .223 cases.

Or my shell holder was a little taller than it should have been to be a good fit with my FL resizing die.

 

[bigedp51]

Back the die up in the press a few thousandths like most people do to set the fired case shoulder back only .003".

Such folks ignore those instructions supplied with dies. Been doing it for decades.

Or use a Redding competition shellholder of the right height to do that and have a smaller spread in sized case headspace.

Dear Bart B

I'm 65 and have been reloading for over 47 years and was describing how the same caliber dies can vary in size. So thank you but I don't need you to pull the handle of my press for me. Meaning your post was more than a little insulting, the next thing you know you will be correcting peoples spelling and grammar.

Below a fired case from one of my AR15 rifles

The same case after full length resizing and .003 shoulder bump.

And last but not least my competition shell holders.

So tell me Bart B what makes you think your the only one who knows how to reload. And what do you think I was saying about living in a plus and minus manufacturing world and dies varying in dimensions.

So thank you but I already know a die has threads and can move up and down in the press. And I'm not the one asking questions here in this thread Bart Butinsky.

Well enough of the theory of relativity and dealing with a Yo-yo.

Signed
Attila the Hun
And using shock therapy