therifleman556
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How does this process compare to the method mentioned from time to time where one uses a body die in conjunction with the Lee collet neck sizer?
500yds and further neck tension?
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No clue. I FL size everything. I was never won over by the neck sizing camp.
I did that whole body die neck sizing crap for a couple years man. I will never own a neck die again. I could feel the differences in shoulders for first 2-3 firings on most regular cartridges. Done with it. That just me though I know there are a bunch of ways to get to that end goal of consistent ammo
therifleman556
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I think that's where the body die was supposed to come in for shoulder bump.
fabricator21
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If the neck is properly lubed the expander ball is not an issue.
therifleman556
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A body die is the same as an FL die without the neck. People use the method you are talking about because it solves run out issues. I use either bushing dies with no expander and use a mandrel or a Forster Full Length bench rest die that has a high mounted expander that floats. The case neck is still inside the neck of the die when the expander enters the case neck and thus centered with the axis of the case. Meaning extremely low case neck runout measurements for both processes.
With Lapua brass and Whidden nonbushing dies (expander ball in) I get .001" avg. run out measured at the forward end of the bearing surface on a seated bullet.
Rhovee
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I shot a 7 saum and 338 edge at 1k on paper a last weekend. Edge shot a 1.25" group. Fluke I know. Saum was 3.25. Non prepped ADG brass for both. Didn't do a thing but size load and shoot. I do use a bushing die. But expander just barely kisses the necks if I had it installed. I don't use it. These are hunting rifles. Absolutely you can use cheaper dies and get 1 moa or less. If you, your load, and rifle are capable.
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As with everything, test your rifle and load. It's not a rule.
I've found more ready success with quality brass (low neck width SD), no neck turning , and mandrel for neck tension. All hunting loads. Results work.
Test your results.
I've found more ready success with quality brass (low neck width SD), no neck turning , and mandrel for neck tension. All hunting loads. Results work.
Test your results.
My experience has been that its more about the rifle than the dies. I have a few factory rifles that I use expanders on that are much less than 1 MOA at those distances. I even have a full custom that I use expanders on and that gun is the most accurate of any gun I have.
I've used expanders and prefer the bushing dies when I can get them. Brass prep and dies will defiantly help and is worth doing on anything but the top end brass.
I've used expanders and prefer the bushing dies when I can get them. Brass prep and dies will defiantly help and is worth doing on anything but the top end brass.
My son and I are fairly new reloaders (think years not decades) and are just now getting to neck turning and "more advanced" reloading processes in the pursuit of small groups. I don't want to take away from anything anyone else has said, just sharing my experience so far.
So far we have only used more or less standard reloading dies, typically RCBS, Redding, & Hornady. We have two .223 Savage BVSS(s) that we had our "reloading competition" with each other and started with factory ammo that shot about .75-1noa out to 500 yards. Reloading with standard dies we each found 2-3 loads that were .5moa or less and best loads shooting .25moa on average at 100 yards. We were only able to hold the best loads to .6-.7moa at 500 yards. This was a year long process mostly for fun and bragging rights.
Fast forward to my 6.5-06 and my son's 7RM. Reloading with Redding dies & Hornady dies. I got lucky with my 6.5-06 and my second load shoots at .3 at 100 yards. I typically can only hold .75moa at 500 yards with it. (I'm sure it is me not the gun) My son's 7mag only shoot .75moa at 100 yards and tighten's up due to the bullet not being stable yet at 100 (we assume) at 500 yards he can typically shoot .5moa with some exceptional groups in the .3s. Again this is with run of the mill dies and careful prep work on a single stage RCBS rock crusher. Powder to the exact charge (and that is probably really +/-.1) and holding ES usually 5-12. We don't have groupings past 500 yards because that is how long our range is but my son was able to hit the 1 mile target 3 out of 5 times last time we went to the long range. 2 shots to get the 8mph wind right and then 3 hits. (36" square if memory serves me) I believe that is about a 2moa target at that distance BUT it was his first time getting out that far. We are 2 range trips into shooting past 500 yards right now.
All that to say can it be done with regular dies, I think so. I only have 3 calibers and 4 guns to base what I know on. Is that the rule or the exception, I can't tell you but maybe some of the long time reloaders can?
Wedgy
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I agree with most everything said and will add that I saw no difference on paper with runout less than 0.003" so I'm good with that. Getting an FX120i solved a lot of ES issues as did using quality, prepped brass, and sorting bullets. It's the sum of all steps.
Early on in my reloading experience I would use conventional FL and neck dies. In a desire for even small accuracy gains I started preparing cases even reamed inside the necks. I was concerned that when the button (expander ball) was pulled up through the neck it took strong pull and would squeak loudly. Asked many knowledgeable reloaders and gunsmiths and was always told to lube inside of necks. Didn't help. Then when forming brass for an Ackley improved cartridge, 3 out of 10 (brand new brass) were splitting at the shoulder. Notified the gunsmith and he had me send the gun back. Weeks later he called me and told me the chamber was not the problem and that problem was bad brass. I replied in disagreement stating it was "new" brass. He growled and said most cheap brass is bad when new. So, no need to "lube" necks if brass is good, having soft necks. After that I started annealing and using good brand of brass. I think that accuracy is harmed and necks are out of line when an expander ball requires 25lbs of force on a press that has strong mechanical leverage
