35 Whelen AI Help

[edg1966]

I recently purchased a used custom rifle in 35 Whelen AI. The gun is a Pre-64 Mod. 70 action with a Douglas barrel & McMillian stock. The previous owner sold it with dies and some 30-06 Lapua brass that was necked up to .358...some was fire-formed for the gun and some is just the standard 35 Whelen specs. I'm trying to reload the standard for fire forming and am running into a little trouble with seating depth. I purchases some Hornady 200 gr SP Interlocks for the purpose of getting it on paper and fire-forming the brass. When I take on of the fire-formed cases and seat a bullet I am having to seat it pretty deep to get the bolt to close without resistance. I have taken a dummy round with a seated bullet, smoked it with a match, inserted it into the chamber & closed the bolt. To seat it just off the lands, my OAL is 3.070"...far shorter than the standard 35 Whelen OAL of 3.340". Is this just indicative of the bullet I'm using or am I missing something? The standard 35 Whelen rounds loaded are still only 3.1something". I'll be fire forming with 59gr of RL 15. Thanks for the help!

 

[truck driver]

I have a standard 35 Whelen Remington 700 Classic. Granted the Remington chamber has a generous free bore and it sounds like you have a short chamber. If it were mine I would have the barrel set back and rechamber for the standard 35Whelen. The AI version gets you very little for the extra work of forming cases. Also the Whelen in it's standard case is an awesome big game round and is capable for taking anything in North America.

 

[TOM H]

It was short throated and I'm guessing they wanted at least bullet dia or close to that in the neck.

They made some short bullets for the 35 Whelen like Sierra 200gr Pro Hunter RN and bullet length is .873", if you just add bullet length and case length 2.494"+.873"= 3.387". You put .300" in the neck your OAL be 3.087". You be fine with some of the heavier 225gr just have more bullet in the neck.

They do makes some long bullets like 225gr and it's 1.375" long and from ogive forward is .765".

On the 35 WhelenAI they increased body length and dia at the shoulder over 35 Whelen case so you got little more case capacity. Myself I'd leave it as is and enjoy it.

I'm shooting 35 WhelenAI also on Rem 700 with Kreiger barrel. Mine is throated for those 225AB and couple others so I'm not able to shoot some shorter bullets and you have better selection. I tried couple powders but R-15 shot the best.

Best of luck

 

[truck driver]

Just a quick question. If your chamber is short and doesn't allow you to seat the bullets with out compressing the powder charge doesn't that defeat the purpose of the AI chamber since you have to seat the bullet deeper taking up powder space in the case?

 

[TOM H]

Just a quick question. If your chamber is short and doesn't allow you to seat the bullets with out compressing the powder charge doesn't that defeat the purpose of the AI chamber since you have to seat the bullet deeper taking up powder space in the case?

You expressed your views on his rifle and that's find. I kind of know where your headed with this and fairness to OP might want to start new thread.

 

[truck driver]

Sorry if you miss understood my question. With answers like yours to my question is why I don't post here very much. One can't learn if one doesn't ask.

 

[edg1966]

It was short throated and I'm guessing they wanted at least bullet dia or close to that in the neck.

They made some short bullets for the 35 Whelen like Sierra 200gr Pro Hunter RN and bullet length is .873", if you just add bullet length and case length 2.494"+.873"= 3.387". You put .300" in the neck your OAL be 3.087". You be fine with some of the heavier 225gr just have more bullet in the neck.

They do makes some long bullets like 225gr and it's 1.375" long and from ogive forward is .765".

On the 35 WhelenAI they increased body length and dia at the shoulder over 35 Whelen case so you got little more case capacity. Myself I'd leave it as is and enjoy it.

I'm shooting 35 WhelenAI also on Rem 700 with Kreiger barrel. Mine is throated for those 225AB and couple others so I'm not able to shoot some shorter bullets and you have better selection. I tried couple powders but R-15 shot the best.

Best of luck

Now THAT is helpful information...Thanks Tom. The previous owner was shooting 225 TSXs and 250 Partitions, which I will be getting, but don't have in my possession. I used the Hornadys because didn't have access to those when loading up rounds for fire-forming/sighting...coupled with the fact that I'm too cheap to run expensive bullets through it when I'm probably not going to learn much anyway. I'll push them down in there and run them through, then switch to something better.

I don't see much sense in re-chambering since once they are fire formed & I'm shooting what it is used to, the problem will be solved. I realize that the Whelen AI is probably the most useless AI ever made, but I'm hoping to get a lot of use out of the brass (using Lapua & Nosler). And, it's what I have so it's what I'm going to use...I'm Norwegian and stubborn!

While researching my dilemma last night I saw some pictures of WAI rounds loaded with Accubonds...clearly there is a lot more bullet ahead of the ogive so I'm sure different bullets will give me more OAL. I curse the Hornadys, but like my buddy says...watch out, they may perform better than anything else. I seriously doubt that with a 1:12 twist...maybe I should change that too!

 

[J E Custom]

Just a quick question. If your chamber is short and doesn't allow you to seat the bullets with out compressing the powder charge doesn't that defeat the purpose of the AI chamber since you have to seat the bullet deeper taking up powder space in the case?

All SAMME chambers are designed to except enough powder to get the designed velocity at the designed pressures, going to the AI should only improve this condition(If only slightly).

If the chamber is a SAMME chamber and you have to compress the powder by seating to standard Mag length you need to look at a different powder or a different bullet.

If the chamber is short throated, it needs to be throated to SAMME standards.

Ideally, the powder charge should be between 96% and 100% case capacity without compressing
it with the bullet.

We all have a tendency to try and get more out of a cartridge than it was designed to do (I am guilty two) but with this extra performance comes more difficulties.

The 35 Whelen is a great cartridge as it is and the AI version should be a very simple change if you don't get carried away.(They all use the same head space gauge unless it has been wildcatted). If more velocity is needed/wanted that the 35 Whelen can produce my recommendation would be to go to a larger cartridge.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[truck driver]

All SAMME chambers are designed to except enough powder to get the designed velocity at the designed pressures, going to the AI should only improve this condition(If only slightly).

If the chamber is a SAMME chamber and you have to compress the powder by seating to standard Mag length you need to look at a different powder or a different bullet.

If the chamber is short throated, it needs to be throated to SAMME standards.

Ideally, the powder charge should be between 96% and 100% case capacity without compressing
it with the bullet.

We all have a tendency to try and get more out of a cartridge than it was designed to do (I am guilty two) but with this extra performance comes more difficulties.

The 35 Whelen is a great cartridge as it is and the AI version should be a very simple change if you don't get carried away.(They all use the same head space gauge unless it has been wildcatted). If more velocity is needed/wanted that the 35 Whelen can produce my recommendation would be to go to a larger cartridge.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

Thanks for clarifying that for me. Being a novice reloader I can use all the help I can get.

 

[TOM H]

Sorry if you miss understood my question. With answers like yours to my question is why I don't post here very much. One can't learn if one doesn't ask.

You didn't sound like no novice to me when you posted this "if it were mine I would have the barrel set back and rechamber for the standard 35Whelen. The AI version gets you very little for the extra work of forming cases. Also the Whelen in it's standard case is an awesome big game round and is capable for taking anything in North America."

The 35 WhelenAI is a wildcat no SAAMI spec.

I'm pretty sure you didn't skip over my post and this part " Mine is throated for those 225AB and couple others so I'm not able to shoot some shorter bullets".

You knew I long throated mine and your question were about short throating/case capacity etc.. I understood you question very well.

 

[J E Custom]

The 35 WhelenAI is a wildcat no SAAMI spec.

I'm pretty sure you didn't skip over my post and this part " Mine is throated for those 225AB and couple others so I'm not able to shoot some shorter bullets".

You knew I long throated mine and your question were about short throating/case capacity etc.. I understood you question very well.

Just to clarify the AI part.

AIs Are intended to use the parent case head space gauge (That Is SAMME spec.) and all dimensions
including throat length, free bore, case length and case head size are the same. The only changes are in body taper and shoulder angle. If changes are made to the SAMME dimensions it is considered a wildcat, but if the shoulder angle and body taper only are changed it would be considered a Wildcat by some and not others because factory ammo (Also SAMME spec.)can still be fired in it safely.

The only time that we normally get into trouble is when we start changing the SAMME dimensions like throat length, neck diameter, free bore, neck length and lead angle for one reason or the other.

Experienced re loaders can work around these problems but the inexperienced should understand what effects any changes will have on performance before he enters into changing a SAMME specification .

The AI changes are not to increase velocity, Although they do, the intent was to improve the case design so less powder would accomplish the same velocity and improve case life. A prime example is the 280 AI which holds less powder than the 7 Rem Mag but will meet or exceed the 7 Rem Mag velocities with the same bullet weight and barrel lengths.

Buy Adding the AI feature to the 35 Whelen a wider range of powders will work and as long as no other changes are made, it will normally not cause problems.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[truck driver]

Buy Adding the AI feature to the 35 Whelen a wider range of powders will work and as long as no other changes are made, it will normally not cause problems.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM[/QUOTE]

Now you have my curiosity rolling. I'm currently using RL15,Varget and IMR 4064 to load my Standard Whelen, what other powders will work with the AI improved 35 WHELEN?

 

[J E Custom]

Buy Adding the AI feature to the 35 Whelen a wider range of powders will work and as long as no other changes are made, it will normally not cause problems.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

Now you have my curiosity rolling. I'm currently using RL15,Varget and IMR 4064 to load my Standard Whelen, what other powders will work with the AI improved 35 WHELEN?[/QUOTE]


With some powders it is impossible to reach max pressure without being compressed the addition of the AI will normally do away with this problem.

I prefer to run 98% to 100% case density and with more capacity it is easier to find a powder
that will reach 100% case density at or just before Maximum pressure is reached for the cartridge.

It also adds to case life.

J E CUSTOM