308 loading help

[Alibiiv]

I am using Federal brass. I totally prep the brass, anneal, ream primer pockets, deburr flash hole, FLR (Hornady One Shot lube) with expander ball removed, mandrel neck size, turn the necks and chamfer the case mouth inside and out. I use a Chargemaster for my powder drops. My son got a deal in 4 pounds of AR COMP, so I decided to try it in my .308. My .308 is a 1965 Winchester model 88 carbine, 20 inch barrel. The only thing that has been done to this gun was to take it apart and scrub the crud, probably factory crud, from the insides!! Just a side note, DO NOT EVER take a model 88 apart because when two pins are removed all the parts for the entire trigger/firing mechanism fall out of the enclosed mechanism. And…it takes about three hours and a couple of YouTube videos to to get it back together. Anyways back to the AR COMP. I did a ladder load using Barnes 165gr TTSX bullets. The powder metered nicely and dropped into the cases with no granules sticking to the case mouths. I wasn't concerned with bullet jump, it's a model 88 lever gun so not expecting too much, so bullets were set at 2.810. See that attached target. I could not believe the accuracy and the MV out of this 20 inch lever gun. The 2721mv was the collective average of 5 shots. If you have not tried AR COMP in your .308 loads, you might want to consider a ladder load with it.

 

[308_Branden]

I gotta say thank you for a the feedback guys, and those of you who have PMd me affecting help thank you! I was talking to my buddy and I keep trying to trouble shoot my shoulder bump issue. I noticed 2 things, 1 the Lyman all American turret press has a bit of play in the wheel where you install your FL sizer, and 2 my reloading bench has flex in it as well I contacted Lyman to see what the deal is and maybe try to exchange the press just for a single stage press since I hear those are more accurate. And now I'm thinking of doing something to stiffen up the work bench. I just can't believe that this one part of the process has given me the most drama. What type of presses and dies do you guys swear by? I still think it's user error but there not that many ways to do this

 

[Alibiiv]

I gotta say thank you for a the feedback guys, and those of you who have PMd me affecting help thank you! I was talking to my buddy and I keep trying to trouble shoot my shoulder bump issue. I noticed 2 things, 1 the Lyman all American turret press has a bit of play in the wheel where you install your FL sizer, and 2 my reloading bench has flex in it as well I contacted Lyman to see what the deal is and maybe try to exchange the press just for a single stage press since I hear those are more accurate. And now I'm thinking of doing something to stiffen up the work bench. I just can't believe that this one part of the process has given me the most drama. What type of presses and dies do you guys swear by? I still think it's user error but there not that many ways to do this

RCBS Rocker Chucker Supreme and never look back. I had an RCBS Rock Chucker for like 20+years and bought the Supreme model a couple of years ago. There was nothing wrong with the Rock Chucker press it still made great reloads, I just wanted a new press. I am sure there are others who will say that their Ford is better than my Chevy, the RCBS Supreme is my choice. The turret presses are great for making plinking ammunition in my opinion, however if you want to make something precisely the single stage are the way to go. Although if you want to spend $1200-1400 there is a "C" turret press out there, the "Zero" reloading press. As for the bench flex, this "may" affect your reloading abilities; however, I am not too certain of that. Yes is it nice to have a soled press, anchored to the floor yes indeed.

 

[308_Branden]

RCBS Rocker Chucker Supreme and never look back. I had an RCBS Rock Chucker for like 20+years and bought the Supreme model a couple of years ago. There was nothing wrong with the Rock Chucker press it still made great reloads, I just wanted a new press. I am sure there are others who will say that their Ford is better than my Chevy, the RCBS Supreme is my choice. The turret presses are great for making plinking ammunition in my opinion, however if you want to make something precisely the single stage are the way to go. Although if you want to spend $1200-1400 there is a "C" turret press out there, the "Zero" reloading press. As for the bench flex, this "may" affect your reloading abilities; however, I am not too certain of that. Yes is it nice to have a soled press, anchored to the floor yes indeed.

The area 419 is beautiful but I'd rather spend that money elsewhere lol I've heard a lot about the rock chucker!

 

[Guy M]

I gotta say thank you for a the feedback guys, and those of you who have PMd me affecting help thank you! I was talking to my buddy and I keep trying to trouble shoot my shoulder bump issue. I noticed 2 things, 1 the Lyman all American turret press has a bit of play in the wheel where you install your FL sizer, and 2 my reloading bench has flex in it as well I contacted Lyman to see what the deal is and maybe try to exchange the press just for a single stage press since I hear those are more accurate. And now I'm thinking of doing something to stiffen up the work bench. I just can't believe that this one part of the process has given me the most drama. What type of presses and dies do you guys swear by? I still think it's user error but there not that many ways to do this

I use the heck out of a Lyman 8-station turret press and have built some great ammo using it. However, the most accurate ammo I've built has been on a Forster with their honed dies. The Forster press allows a tiny bit of "float" with both the case head and the die - which seems to lead to very straight ammo and very little bullet runout. And superb results on target. See if someone you know uses one and let 'em give you a tour of the Forster. An unusual and time proven design.

Regards, Guy

 

[Russ-T]

I wouldn't get too worked up over it. My 308 Win is an old PSS Gen 1 that my family got me when I returned home from the Army in 1991. It's very accurate and I love it due to the accuracy and sentimental value. Federal brass was all I shot out of it and I must have over 10k rounds through it's barrel. I tried all types of dies and finally now to make things easy I just size it in a RCBS X die. That way I don't have to trim brass anymore. You have to set up that die to cam over, but I do just a slight cam over and get around 2 thou shoulder bump. And it still makes great ammo. So don't get too worked up. This is all supposed to be fun. :)

I have the 308 X-die too! Love not having to trim the brass.

 

[xsn10s]

I have the 308 X-die too! Love not having to trim the brass.

I know huh, I hate trimming. But with this die there's no trimming. And I still get about the same accuracy performance as a standard die just neck sizing or slight shoulder bumping. My factory 308 Win I place more value in reliable smooth cycling than wringing out the outmost probability of accuracy. It's not a precision high dollar benchrest chamber, it's a working rifle.

 

[308_Branden]

What's annoying for me is my rifle seems to like a longer COAL but it won't seat cause the feed ramp stops the mag from seating. But to work reliable I seat it deeper and accuracy is under an inch but not as tight as the longer COAL

 

[308_Branden]

Just an update, loading seems to be going smoother. I've made my work bench much stiffer which I think really has helped with consistency. I recently started developing a hunting load for my 308. Shot 6 groups today with varget and the Berger vld 168. 2 charge weights shot very well 42 and 43 gr loaded to 2.825 as you can see groups are pretty good minus the flyer. SD were single digit and the es was less than 20. Bolt lift at the 43 gr was just barely stiff I was thinking of going up to 44gr. Would you guys play with seating depth tat this point? Thanks

 

[308_Branden]

42gr pushed the vld at 2520 and the 43gr got to 2600

 

[Turpentine21]

With Varget in a 20" barrel 2600 to 2650 will be about all you will see. AR Comp or RL15 can give a little more velocity but if you are slightly stiff on the bolt I wouldn't go higher.

 

[Turpentine21]

I know huh, I hate trimming. But with this die there's no trimming. And I still get about the same accuracy performance as a standard die just neck sizing or slight shoulder bumping. My factory 308 Win I place more value in reliable smooth cycling than wringing out the outmost probability of accuracy. It's not a precision high dollar benchrest chamber, it's a working rifle.

XSN I have found that about the best thing for trimming is a Forster 3 in 1. I have them for ever caliber I load for. Even the 308. But the X die will spoil you.

 

[Turpentine21]

42gr pushed the vld at 2520 and the 43gr got to 2600

Also, I have found there seems to be a node for 20" barrels around 2600-2640 for 168s. I like 168 Amax from my 20"AR 10 with 40.6 AR Comp in LC Match and 41 grains in Winchester brass. Runs 2620fps. A 150 Sst does well on deer running about 2750fps. I prefer the 168s though and they are more accurate in that rifle.

 

[Clem Bronkoski]

I am using Federal brass. I totally prep the brass, anneal, ream primer pockets, deburr flash hole, FLR (Hornady One Shot lube) with expander ball removed, mandrel neck size, turn the necks and chamfer the case mouth inside and out. I use a Chargemaster for my powder drops. My son got a deal in 4 pounds of AR COMP, so I decided to try it in my .308. My .308 is a 1965 Winchester model 88 carbine, 20 inch barrel. The only thing that has been done to this gun was to take it apart and scrub the crud, probably factory crud, from the insides!! Just a side note, DO NOT EVER take a model 88 apart because when two pins are removed all the parts for the entire trigger/firing mechanism fall out of the enclosed mechanism. And…it takes about three hours and a couple of YouTube videos to to get it back together. Anyways back to the AR COMP. I did a ladder load using Barnes 165gr TTSX bullets. The powder metered nicely and dropped into the cases with no granules sticking to the case mouths. I wasn't concerned with bullet jump, it's a model 88 lever gun so not expecting too much, so bullets were set at 2.810. See that attached target. I could not believe the accuracy and the MV out of this 20 inch lever gun. The 2721mv was the collective average of 5 shots. If you have not tried AR COMP in your .308 loads, you might want to consider a ladder load with it.

That is a remarkable group for a 88 with the triggers in them. Of all the rifles I've owned in my years, the Win 88s and Rem 760s have got to be the worse!