300 WM.. what is the farthest....

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by *WyoWhisper*, Jan 3, 2002.

  1. *WyoWhisper*

    *WyoWhisper* Guest

    Distance this will reach with the 220's and effectivly kill an deer sized animal. I am driving my self crazy choosing a new caliber for this next rifle.
    I like the 300 RUM but with brass being limited and the fact the info is just begginging to develope I am not sure I want to get that route. ( I can just see DC shaking his head at me ;-) )
    My concerns are quick kill and of course accuracy I have read alot of information on terminal ballistics ( stuff that make you think) I can share the site if you'd like) and I am wondering which caliber will get me to 1000-1200 yards on deer sized game?

    back to the padded room......
     
  2. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    Any of the 300 mag's would work for you.I would lean toward's the Rum.I know the brass stink's.But someone WILL start making good brass for it.When someone does I think the 30-378 is gonna have it's hand's full for the title of KING OF THE BIG 30'S.Just my thought's.Darryl' help me out here.Please....
     
  3. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Hello Ric and Boyd

    Ric, I think that Boyd hit the nail on the head concerning "Any 30 Cal Magnum" such as, but not limited to, 308 Norma mag, 300 Win Mag, 300 Weatherby mag, 300 RUM will do what you want it to do using the 220 Gr bullets out to 1000 or 1250 yards.
    I also have to agree with Boyd that I would go with the 300 RUM because it is just a step BEHIND the Most powerful 30 cal, the 30/378 or the 30/378 IMP or the 30/416 Rigby IMP.--The problem with the last three calibers mentioned is, they need a big custom action at a price tag of $1250.00 or more just for that action and to use the larger cases. You can use a Weatherby action in the 378 bolt face but you would have to take a Weatherby rifle apart and now you may be better off buying a custom action anyway.
    The Remington and Savage actions don't have enough meat in the bolt face to take them out to the 378 base diameter. It would not be wise to do so anyway because the 378 is much more powerfull then the 300 RUM.

    The nice thing about the 300 RUM is, you can put it on a Standard Mag action such as a Remington or Savage and they will hold up under the 300 RUM pressures.

    It (The 300 RUM) will never be as powerfull or take away the name "King of The 30s" from the 30/378 or the other two I mentioned. The powder capacity is over 23 grs more in my 416 Rigby IMP case then the 300 RUM has. The standard 378 has 12 more grains capacity over the 300 RUM.
    So you see, the larger style cases that incoorporate the 378 or 416 case is, and will continue to be, more powerfull then the 300 RUM or the Tomahawk in the 30 cal.
    They have to be classified as the "second" best thirty calibers.

    If I were Ric (Ric, I'm not shaking my head now) I would go with the 300 RUM with a 10 twist barrel as long (28 to 30" at least) as I could have and use off of my horse.

    If you ran out of ammo, you could buy them at your local gun shop if need be.
    Maybe Federal will come through unless they already have because the Remington brass is not the best but, would be fine for hunting purposes.

    To sum this up, A 300 RUM or the 300 Tomahawk will not dethrone the 30/378 and 30/378 IMP style cases in the hunting fields. Just too much powder capacity difference.
    The 300 RUM would be my choice in Rics situation. I believe he already has a Savage mag. action to use.

    You fellows are doing a fine job asking and answering questions on this or any forum.

    Glad to respond and try to help---ANYTIME.

    Ric, see you in Harrisburg.
    Boyd, See you at the Williamsport Range.

    Later
    Darryl Cassel
    PS--The smell of burning gun powder makes me "Horney" and always has. It don't take much even at my age. hehehehehe

    [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
     
  4. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    Darryl'I was just looking at the data Saeed posted on the 30-378 and the 300 Rum.30-378 was 3137fps with the 220gr MK.The RUM was 3089fps with the 220.His data is within about 10fps of mine.I don't know if this data on the 30-378 is the norm but by the look's of Saeed's finding's is the extra 12gr of powder worth that extra 40 or 50fps.I could be wrong but it's not worth it to me.What are your thought's?And Darryl that thing with the burnt powder.I know how you feel.LoL.....My wife hate's it when I go to the range.....

    [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]
     
  5. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Boyd

    With long barrels (Saeed is testing NORMAL length barrels of 26") such as my 37" chambered in the 30/378 I have taken the 200 grain to 3550 FPS without ANY problem.
    The 220 I could push to 3350 and 3400 without problems. Now this was with a large Custom action and 115 to 117 Grs of powder.

    There are no 300 RUMs that will achieve this as to date. Mainly because the standard mag factory actions won't be safe under these pressures.

    I am testing the 300 Tomahawk to 100 grs of powder (so far) using 190, 200, 220 and 240 Gr bullets. I will let you know the outcome.
    I have been known to push the envelope when testing powder, case and bullets.

    I could get some unbelievable velocity in the case I designed many years ago. It was based on the 8MM mag and blown out to the minimum tapor and had a 40 degree Ackley shoulder. It was called the "308 DC Super IMP." It was about .002" larger at the shoulder diameter then the Baer case (Before I knew of the Bear case) and a bit longer because I used the 8MM mag case instead of the 300 Weatheby as my base design.
    I could shoot in excess of 100 grs of ball powder in it and with 190 and 200 gr Match Kings, I could almost duplicate the 30/378.
    Not quite, but within 150 FPS with the 200 gr bullet. My thoughts at the time were, why go to the BIG custom actions if I can get that close with a smaller 30Cal? My case had a water capacity of 106 Grs as compared to the 300 RUM of 112 grs.
    That rifle is owned by a good friend of mine in Midland, PA. I do have two more of them sitting here.
    Several shooter/hunters have chambered that cartridge for their hunting rifles. The reamer can be found at Clymer reamers where it is on file.
    Problem is, you have to fire form and fool around a bit with it but, it sure is an impressive case when all is said and done. It Can be shot on a Standard Mag factory action also.

    So far, from what I'm seeing, My case or the Baer case would be every bit as good as the 300 RUM if you had the barrel length to burn all the powder. I am going to compare them side by side and make my final decision as to my findings.
    I have never made statements pertaining to any caliber, chambering, bullets, actions, barrels, scopes, stocks, triggers, etc, until I tried it first. If someone said this caliber is the best thing since sliced bread, I would chamber it and just see how good it is. I have had most every longrange caliber and can give a good comparison to any.

    Take care
    Darryl Cassel
     
  6. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Boyd

    940 yards is the shortest or starting point from my shooting building. 3000 yards is the longest.

    From another spot on my property the starting yardage is 700 yards and 2600 yards is the longest.

    The 25 fps rule stands as per barrel length 1" additional =25 FPS up to a point and sometimes 35 FPS. Sometimes you can go too long and there is a DRAG factor on the bullet which you will not get the 25 FPS per inch.

    When you start to reach the max amount of the powder to case ratio and effeciencey the velocity will drop off as per every grain of powder you put in the case.
    At that point your velocity starts to drop down per every grain of powder you put in the case.
    Before you reach that point take a REAL close look at your brass and feel how hard the bolt comes up. You should go back to the point where you stopped losing a lot of velocity per grain of powder.
    Lets say you were gaining 50 FPS per additional grain of powder. As you add another grain the velocity drops to 35 FPS per grain and another grain you only jumped 15 FPS---STOP and go back 2 grains.

    Had to run up town today and didn't have a chance to work on the Tomahawk. I will soon and will be able to give you more information as to what I am finding the velocity to be.
    My starting loads so far are 98 and 100 grs of WC872 with 190, 200, 220 and 240 gr bullets.
    Take care
    Darryl Cassel
    PS Just thought you would like to see this pic taken yesterday when my wife and I went for a little walk. It is taken at 2000 feet looking down into the little town of Driftwood. Our house is to the left up on that mountain. Not far from here is where longrange hunting began after WW2. You can see why. The deer have been working the tops as you can see in the pics also.

    [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
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  7. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    Thank's Darryl.I am very interested to see how my 36" RUM will do against your 34" Tommy.I am gonna have to wait to see what mine will do.Nice picture.Alot of Big hill's up that way.My father-in-law and I are going out Sat to do some looking around.He said he saw some spot's on ToPo map's that might show some promise.I tried to put him behind my gun this year and he said (I don't want to shoot one.I just want to find them).Darryl if you ever need a set of eye's next year I think I could tear myself away from one of these hole's down here and come up there and give you a hand.(BIG SMILE).Is it huntin season yet?????????.Talk at ya later.Boyd...
     
  8. Jon A

    Jon A Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you're like me and always in search of more horsepower (those that aren't are usually perfectly happy with the 30-06) go for the RUM.

    If you settle for less, eventually you'll want more--like me, I'm having my A-Bolt in 300 Win rechambered to RUM.

    As Darryl mentioned, this is assuming you aren't already planning on a big, expensive custom action. In that case, the bigger the better!

    But like he said, after the RUM the costs go way up. I'm having my 300 Win rechambered for about $110. Not bad for an instant 25% increase in powder capacity. The 300 Tomahawk will work in all the same actions but might be a bit more expensive depending upon your gunsmith. Mine didn't have a RUM reamer but he bought one at no cost to me since he knows he'll get a lot of use out of it--he wouldn't have done the same for the Tomahawk. If you aren't worried about that and don't mind fireforming cases, the Tomahawk should show a slight advantage. I'm thinking that's probably as much powder as you can possibly (also easily and cheaply) stuff into a standard sized action.

    Hopefully Norma will start making brass soon. Let's keep pestering them! Since Federal already sells loaded ammo, I figure it's only a matter of time before they offer brass.

    Accuracy-wise, I think it comes down to how much you spend on your rifle and your reloading skills. Headspacing on the shoulder is supposedly "inherently" more accurate but I'm not sure if this actually shows up until after you've spent tons on the rifle or not. Maybe somebody else knows better.
     
  9. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    I ran my RUM up to 3100fps with the 220's in a 26" barrel.The load I use give's me 3026 in cold weather.It now wear's a 36" tube.And I will add 25fps per inch.Am I on track here?With that it should give me somewhere around 3275.Your 30-378 if it had a 36" barrel would give you about 3325 on the low end.That's still only 50fps.I have no idea what my gun will do yet.Different chamber' action ect..I am just going by the 25fps rule I hear everyone talking about.Am I even in the ballpark here?I am gonna be shooting 240's anyway so even if I was right it would'nt matter.Darryl ?.In the picture of your spot how far is the shooting.Shortest to longest?