28 Nosler QuickLoad need help

[Retired2021]

I purchased QuickLoad a few months ago and wish I had purchased it before I bought about 30 lbs of powder of different varities that I don't need now. I am practicing with 7 different calabers in learning hunting reloading. I have been using QL and OBT and have had good sucess with arriving at a load more than satisfying for hunting. For the caliber I am loading for I enter in QL the caliber and bullet I want to use. Then is try to find a load that matches Z1 to Pmax and the barrel time.

I have a 28 Nosler with the following data
Barrel length 26"
Case capacity 102.4 gr H2O
Case lenght 2.575
COBL 3.410
Weighting factor 0.40
Bullet Hammer 155 HH
Powder RL 33

QL said that I need 92.3 grains of RL 33 for velocity of 3241 F/S to hit a OBT of 1.324

I started with a ladder with the following results (velocity measured with a Magnito Speed)
89 gr 3306 F/S
89.5 gr 3314 F/S
90 gr 3388 F/S
90.5 gr 3413 F/S
91 gr 3419 F/S
I did not continue the test to the 92.3 grains becasue the velocity is so much higher than what I was expecting. When I got back to the QL and adjusted Ba to match the measured velocity it said I was in over pressure territory. The only pressure sign I had was a little flattening of the primer at the 91 gr where I stopped. But the amount of adjustment is much more than I think it should be. Defalt Ba is 0.2670, I adjusted to 0.2940.

QL has been a very good predictor for 223, 243, 270, 7mm08, 7RM and 300 SAMU. This one has me wondering what I did wrong. I am hoping some of you who have extensive QuickLoad knowledge can help me out.

All the best

 

[asd9055]

Were the other calibers also with Hammer? They tend to fly faster than other bullets due to design.
Your case capacity is it actual fired cases in your rifle? (I usually average 10)
Temperature?
Then you also adjust Ba
I also think, if I remember correctly hammers have lower Shot Start (Initiation) pressure
I know there are a couple of QL experts here and will ad more
How did you arrive at the ).4 weighing factor?

 

[Zen Archery]

I've had same experience as you with QL. Little to no case signs. Velocities way off. Worst was my latest load at almost 500 FPS off. Adjusted BA and QL pressure reading over 90k in a 55k case.
QL does not line up well with Hammers. It's close but start pressure and WF is off. You also need to pay attention to bullet specs. Some have older bullet weights that are off.

 

[Hawk in WY]

Before adjusting the burn rate, correct to actual temperature, plus try .33 for weighing factor (overbore cartridge) and 6525 for shot start pressure (for copper bullet), and tell us how far off you are on velocity.

Fine-tune with burn rate which can be off by as much as 10%.

Good luck.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Read the directions. Shot start pressure is usually only adjusted if you are close to lands. Ba is a later adjustment…..read the direcations.

Understand the base Quickload max load solution is very hot. Compare to manual loads for a bit to see for yourself.

Learn pressure signs. Case head marks from ejector are like 70-80 ksi, imo. Back down 2-3%. Might need to go lower for accuracy. Primers are a good indicator, if you know the gun and primer well….otherwise they can be like tea leaves. Bolt lift is a good indicator…..better on a custom action.

 

[Retired2021]

Thanks everyone. I will try to answer each of your questions with one post.

asd9055: the other calibers I am working on I am using Horniday and Nosler. QL seems to fit those bullets very well. I asjusted temperature (QL default at 70, my measured at 35). I have measured fired cases from this rifle for water weight twice at ten cases each time.

Zen Archery: I did not weigh the bullets, I will do that. These are new from Hammer (ulness they are from old stock at Hammer). The WF is something I don't understand very well yet, but I will take Hawk's advice and move it to 0.33. I had gotten pretty used to QL being close on it's predictions when using Nosler and Hornady bullets. I had used H 1000 and Nosler 175 ABLR in this rifle and QL was very close.

Hawk in WY: thanks for the WF suggestion. Somewhere I have read folks suggesting to not exceed a Ba adjustment of 5%. This session sure highlighted for me why it is wise to drop back a couple of grains and work up to the QL prediction.

nksmfamjp: I did read the QL directions several times since purchasing it. It tells you how to adjust, but is lacking any explanation on what is going on in the backgrould, the why. As I said, there were no pressure signs except for minor primer flattening. I had to study it a while to decide there had been any flattening. No ejector marks, no heavy bolt lift. The Nosler load data says you can go up to 94 grains of RL 33 with 150 grain bullets.

 

[Hawk in WY]

Your success with Hornady and Nosler bullets reflects the fact that the default settings for QuickLOAD are for cup and core bullets. All copper bullets require shot start pressure of 6525 not the default of 3625.

In addition to being all copper, the Hammer bullet design generates less friction in the bore and higher velocity than most other all copper bullets.

These two factors explain the higher velocities you are seeing. Bullet design is free velocity. The higher start pressure produces the higher than predicted pressure you are seeing..

Start over with shot start pressure set at 6525 for the Hammer bullet and I believe this will start to make more sense.

Starting low is always a good idea.

I always cross check QuickLOAD loads with Nosler data for cup and core bullets and with Barnes data for all copper. Both are available online.

Good luck.

 

[can1010]

measure your bullet lengths, Hammers should be right but if off really affects usable case capacity and pressures.
try this.
WF 0.35
BA 0.2786
start 6526
that should give you something to work with. it will hurt your OTB and Pmax but should be within your velocity SD. i always use 3 shots min. 5 being better but with supply costs 3 is better than one and use velocity average to calibrate QL.

 

[asd9055]

measure your bullet lengths, Hammers should be right but if off really affects usable case capacity and pressures.
try this.
WF 0.35
BA 0.2786
start 6526
that should give you something to work with. it will hurt your OTB and Pmax but should be within your velocity SD. i always use 3 shots min. 5 being better but with supply costs 3 is better than one and use velocity average to calibrate QL.

I would think that Hammers because of the thin bands, they would have a lower start pressure. But I have never played with them

 

[can1010]

I would think that Hammers because of the thin bands, they would have a lower start pressure. But I have never played with them

the absolute hammer yes. the hunters I treat like Barnes. copper monos are terrible to predict even cutting edge are bad. the shot start is just that, what it takes to start the engraving process and not what it takes to push the bullet down the barrel after it is engraved into the rifling.
this is only my opinion, but I can't think of anything else that explains the terrible predictions with all copper bullets. it takes alot to get them started but then drops off quickly once fully engraved, also think the type of copper has a big effect on the start pressure.

 

[asd9055]

the absolute hammer yes. the hunters I treat like Barnes. copper monos are terrible to predict even cutting edge are bad. the shot start is just that, what it takes to start the engraving process and not what it takes to push the bullet down the barrel after it is engraved into the rifling.
this is only my opinion, but I can't think of anything else that explains the terrible predictions with all copper bullets. it takes alot to get them started but then drops off quickly once fully engraved, also think the type of copper has a big effect on the start pressure.

Thanks! Like I said I had no experience with them. Learning something everyday is why I am here!

 

[can1010]

if you think copper monos are bad you have to try and predict a bore rider type bullet, throating or the +P throat then things go off the rails as far as velocity readings compared to pressure signs. those make QL almost useless and why people recommend those designs for only the most experienced reloaders.

I don't mind helping people, your right that is what this site is all about, but I won't give QL loading data just try and point people in a safe direction.

 

[asd9055]

if you think copper monos are bad you have to try and predict a bore rider type bullet, throating or the +P throat then things go off the rails as far as velocity readings compared to pressure signs. those make QL almost useless and why people recommend those designs for only the most experienced reloaders.

I don't mind helping people, your right that is what this site is all about, but I won't give QL loading data just try and point people in a safe direction.

I don't give QL loading data either. I don't trust my self I didn't make a mistake and I don't know the loaders experience

 

[can1010]

I don't give QL loading data either. I don't trust my self I didn't make a mistake and I don't know the loaders experience

just remember that QL is a computer generated prediction program meant to be calibrated to your rifle. it is not tried and tested data like a loading manual. that is why anybody who gives someone data is foolish.