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264 Win Mags - When would the brass cases be considered "Fire Formed" for each individual action?

sesauk

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
22
Location
Washington Utah
I have two different 264's one the Remington Model 721 late 50's or early 60's, and the other I just had custom-made with a titanium action and a 26" Proof Research Barrel. I keep the brass separate because I know the chambers will be slightly different. the correct ammunition 721 shoots 1/2", the newer shoots sub 1/4" consistently. These are both shooting custom-loaded ammunition and I want to get into the reloading game myself now. How many firings for each brass do I need to have true "Fire Formed cases"? I am assuming the brass type will also make a difference but only a few companies make brass for the 264 Win Mag.
 
In my experience with belted magnums (264WM, 7RM, 300WM), the base to shoulder on virgin brass is VERY short. My 264WM grew over 25 thousandths on first firing with Winchester brass. My ADG 7 rem mag brass grew 15 thousandths if I remember correctly. These were both in minimum head spaced X-caliber Savage prefits.

With that much stretch happening, it might be good idea to "fire form" with a jammed bullet for the first firing. I did this using some relatively cheap bullets and a mid-level load. One firing got the brass near enough to its full size, with almost imperceptible growth after the second firing with a "normal" load.

If I were you, I'd at the very least check the growth. Measure a virgin piece of brass from base to shoulder, then fire a couple and measure. If the growth is extreme (>0.010") it might be worth using the jammed bullet method, which forces the case head to rest against the bolt face. Otherwise, the brass will stretch backwards and forwards, instead of just forward, potentially thinning the case walls at the web. If the rifles are good shooters, you'll likely get good accuracy out of the fire forming loads, so use them to plink around, get your scope close, break in the barrel, and just have fun.

After the first firing, you'll be able to adjust your die so that you just bump the shoulder back 0.002" or so, and subsequent firing cycles will result in FAR less case stretching, and therefore considerably longer brass life. A small shoulder bump is also probably better for accuracy and precision.
 
In my experience with belted magnums (264WM, 7RM, 300WM), the base to shoulder on virgin brass is VERY short. My 264WM grew over 25 thousandths on first firing with Winchester brass. My ADG 7 rem mag brass grew 15 thousandths if I remember correctly. These were both in minimum head spaced X-caliber Savage prefits.

With that much stretch happening, it might be good idea to "fire form" with a jammed bullet for the first firing. I did this using some relatively cheap bullets and a mid-level load. One firing got the brass near enough to its full size, with almost imperceptible growth after the second firing with a "normal" load.

If I were you, I'd at the very least check the growth. Measure a virgin piece of brass from base to shoulder, then fire a couple and measure. If the growth is extreme (>0.010") it might be worth using the jammed bullet method, which forces the case head to rest against the bolt face. Otherwise, the brass will stretch backwards and forwards, instead of just forward, potentially thinning the case walls at the web. If the rifles are good shooters, you'll likely get good accuracy out of the fire forming loads, so use them to plink around, get your scope close, break in the barrel, and just have fun.

After the first firing, you'll be able to adjust your die so that you just bump the shoulder back 0.002" or so, and subsequent firing cycles will result in FAR less case stretching, and therefore considerably longer brass life. A small shoulder bump is also probably better for accuracy and precision.
Doesn't the belt accomplish the same thing a jammed bullet accomplishes on a non-belted case?
 
Doesn't the belt accomplish the same thing a jammed bullet accomplishes on a non-belted case?
Not from my understanding. The belt can only keep the case from going forward into the chamber, and the bolt face doesn't "crush fit" the brass against the belt, so there's some amount of wiggle room.

If I'm reading the SAAMI drawings correctly, it looks like the measurement for the cartridge is 0.220" base to belt with a -0.008" tolerance, and 0.220" - 0.227" for the chamber. That could potentially set up a maximum headspace (short belt, long chamber) of 0.015", though such extreme tolerance stacking should hopefully be rare.
 
For best consistency, the solid belt should never contact solidly against the chamber or you will have issues resulting from bolt preload. Properly built full custom rifle may not have real issues, most factory rifles certainly will. Because of variations in belt thickness, a belted mag chamber should not be set to true zero headspace. As such, most are 10-20 thou long in headspace. When a round is fired, the brass expands to fill the chamber. Once fired, the loader should only size enough so the case chambers easily and no more so that it headspaces off the shoulder, making the belt irrelevant. Fireformed after one high pressure loading.
 
I have two different 264's one the Remington Model 721 late 50's or early 60's, and the other I just had custom-made with a titanium action and a 26" Proof Research Barrel. I keep the brass separate because I know the chambers will be slightly different. the correct ammunition 721 shoots 1/2", the newer shoots sub 1/4" consistently. These are both shooting custom-loaded ammunition and I want to get into the reloading game myself now. How many firings for each brass do I need to have true "Fire Formed cases"? I am assuming the brass type will also make a difference but only a few companies make brass for the 264 Win Mag.
Brass for 264 Win Mag is easier to obtain than one might think. I prefer to neck down 7mm Rem Mag brass. It's very simple to do. Neck down and shoot. High quality 7mm Rem Mag brass is more available and much less expensive. I went from Nosler Custom 264 Win Mag brass to Peterson 7mm Rem Mag brass and never looked back.
 
My experience with the 300wm is that it is dependent on the brass as well. I have seen that cheaper brass will fire form in 1 firing, but I have some new Lapua brass that is on the 2nd firing and I still haven't had to set it back yet. I have been firing and full length sizing, but all pieces fit perfectly without the 2k setback yet.
 
Brass for 264 Win Mag is easier to obtain than one might think. I prefer to neck down 7mm Rem Mag brass. It's very simple to do. Neck down and shoot. High quality 7mm Rem Mag brass is more available and much less expensive. I went from Nosler Custom 264 Win Mag brass to Peterson 7mm Rem Mag brass and never looked back.
Yes, peterson brass is vastly superior to nosler brass and no more expensive.
 
I just got a new barrel for a 7MM.
First thing I do with virgin brass is find where my pressure is... Assume 5-8 rounds.
I pick the last load that didn't show pressure and I pick one case to fire. I reload that one case at the range until it starts to show wear. I'm looking for a rough idea of how much case life i might get. I've gone 8-10 before with ADG for example.
I measure the case after every shot and I've seen shoulders continue to move forward on the 3rd and 4th firing.
 
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