25-08 or 25-284

[K.E.C.]

Agreed! If different pulls your trigger, go for it! I've been interested in the 27-08 AI for a while, and wanted to build one myself, but had some health issues come up. Looking forward to hearing about your build as it progresses.

Just waiting on the reamer. I talked to Redding and Manson's Reamer, they had the same spec's, I got the dies with in a week, going on a month for the reamer. I'm going to use one of my 308 rifles as a donor. Already sized my brass, I'm using lapua 7-08, still need to trim. But I'm going to wait to finish the brass. I'm excited.

 

[4thefunofit]

Just waiting on the reamer. I talked to Redding and Manson's Reamer, they had the same spec's, I got the dies with in a week, going on a month for the reamer. I'm going to use one of my 308 rifles as a donor. Already sized my brass, I'm using lapua 7-08, still need to trim. But I'm going to wait to finish the brass. I'm excited.

Nice rig! The SAAMI specs for Sig's 277 Fury look like it's a 27-08 AI 30*, and the Army seems to like it. Wouldn't 308 cartridges be less expensive than 7-08? BTW - Joe at Redding is a great guy; really helpful when I had problems getting my 6mm TCU dies - took 18 months because someone messed up!

 

[DUCKMAN11]

Honestly neither. If I wanted a 25cal in a short action standard bolt face I'd go 25creed no questions about it. I wouldn't go 25-284 because that really needs a long action and has similar performance to a standard 25-06 so why not just go 25-06. Or better yet 25-06AI or 25x280AI or 25sherman. I like speed and high bc's for hunting and a 25x284 is not any faster than a 25-06. I like high bc's and barrel life for target work and a 25-08 would "in theory" have quicker throat erosion than a 25creed. Just my opinion

 

[VinceMule]

I had (2) 25-284's on 700 short actions, and this was one of my largest retarded decisions. I had to remove the bolt to get a loaded round out of the rifle, shooting 85g Nosler ballistic tips. Magazine constraints on the Rem short action lead to shorter usable barrel life, learned this previously on the 6/284 shooting 85g Sierra bthp as a long-range coyote rifle.

I don't know how we get caught up in the hysteria of a short action when the difference is only 6 oz in weight between a long and short action.

 

[willfrye027]

If you're set on short action, I would go with a fast twist 25 Creedmoor. I see it becoming a mainstream cartridge with great performance using the newer bullets. Dies and brass are already available and the heavy for caliber bullets just keep coming. I'm sitting here with some 134gr ELDMs on my desk, pondering a new build. The bullets show a G7 of .325 on the Hornady site. 25 Creedmoor or perhaps a 25x47 Lapua...View attachment 458648

Can't wait for those to hit the shelves! How did you manage to get some this early?

 

[Mike Matteson]

Now they have some heavy bullet in all copper in 25 cal now. Feed that with a short action. Maybe looking at a stiffer action. Long action leave it wide open for different cartridges by changing out barrels. I am probably wrong but once the bolt face is squared to the action it's completed and not having to go back and work the bolt face again. I am not a smith, and would have to ask one about it.

 

[quigley257]

Can't wait for those to hit the shelves! How did you manage to get some this early?

I run the rifle shop at H-S Precision. We work closely with Hornady.

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

I spoke with a what I consider to be an expert on the .25 and he told me that the .25x284 is great for hunting. The newest thing on the quarter bore is going to the Needmores. The 25 Needmore is already out and brass available and a big plus is that Hornady is making 134gr ELDM although I think that Berger has a better 135gr Target Bullet.
The PRS circuit is dominated by the 6mm, BUT the .25 Needmore is going to enter into the picture.
The Needmores are over taking the field due to Hornady having components available and Rifle manufactures ramping up and building faster twist barrels for the 6.5, 6mm, 25, & 22 Needmores.
The .25x47 is also going to be popular.
I am going to put this build on hold for a few months at least. We have Short & Long Actions on order and may take a few months to get.
I still want to build a 25x284 for a great hunting rifle with a Manners, McMillan or even a Bell & Carlson stock. It would be hard to sell a 25-08 with the 25 Creed out.
Longer, heavier, higher BC 25s bullets and fatter cases are going to be popular for shooting heavy deer and down size animals.
IT IS JUST A GREAT CALIBER!!!

 

[choprzrul]

Neck down a 270 WSM to .257 ?

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Neck down a 270 WSM to .257 ?

We have a 270 WSM in a Kimber 84 Montana (Jill's rifle) one of the Hunting best rifles we have!
Now that would hopefully be a real shooter with a .25 and 133gr hunting bullet!!! Elk on down would be slammed! Also shoot like a laser.
Great idea!
May already be a Wild Cat like that out there.

Before Jill got the 270WSM she had a .25WSSM GREAT Cartridge, but there was an issue with the rifle Model 70 from Winchester. It was manufactured at the time of the Labor Dispute and sale to Browning. Went sent it back to the new owned Browning and they kept it and would not return stating it was a safety issue. The barrel was scored probably during the labor dispute. They offered us a Browning in another caliber or money back minus tax & shipping if we produced original receipts. I want to just get the rifle back and I would have re-barreled it. Lost money on that, but then bought the 270WSM.
BTW the 25wssm never took off. We gave away all our leftover ammo and Brass to a LRH Member. His daughter has harvested several deer with their 25 wssm.

 

[choprzrul]

We have a 270 WSM in a Kimber 84 Montana (Jill's rifle) one of the Hunting best rifles we have!
Now that would hopefully be a real shooter with a .25 and 133gr hunting bullet!!! Elk on down would be slammed! Also shoot like a laser.
Great idea!
May already be a Wild Cat like that out there.

Before Jill got the 270WSM she had a .25WSSM GREAT Cartridge, but there was an issue with the rifle Model 70 from Winchester. It was manufactured at the time of the Labor Dispute and sale to Browning. Went sent it back to the new owned Browning and they kept it and would not return stating it was a safety issue. The barrel was scored probably during the labor dispute. They offered us a Browning in another caliber or money back minus tax & shipping if we produced original receipts. I want to just get the rifle back and I would have re-barreled it. Lost money on that, but then bought the 270WSM.
BTW the 25wssm never took off. We gave away all our leftover ammo and Brass to a LRH Member. His daughter has harvested several deer with their 25 wssm.

Yeah....those WSSM cartridges never looked copacetic to me. I always figured there would be feeding issues.

#4 is 25 WSSM:

 

[VinceMule]

250 Savage AI and 25x47 Lapua fit mag constraints best of all choices on short actions. Don't forget to remember leade growth and your being able to seat the bullet out to maintain the bullet jump that the load likes in order to avoid barrel replacement. Powders that burn hot in the Heat Index Chart make throat geometry design along with action choice even more critical allowing you to seat bullets out as leade growth dictates.

Wyatt's magazine boxes installed by the gunsmith are money well spent, extending your OAL .125 on Remingtons.

On the 25/284, the long bullets will have to be seated DEEP in the case to accommodate the mag length on a short action, which will take up a lot of powder space and may also do wonky things to pressure, the first lesson I learned.

If you do some advance development in the 25/284, seat the intersection of the boat tail and bullet shank right at the shoulder neck junction of the case, will you will get a "clue" as to the length of the mag box(action length) that you will need. This simple trick could have saved me over $3000 on past builds before an old German gunsmith(Joe Wagner) took me under his wing showing me some of the simple basics.

Please do not make the mistakes I did on 4 Hart barrel builds in the 6 & 25- 284's on Remington Length short actions, ESPECIALLY if you are going to be shooting the 133g Bergers. I am a hunter and need rounds in the magazine. Leade growth on anything based on a 284 case is FAST, make your plans accordingly. Lots of pitfalls in designing xyz/284's where you want super accuracy for 1200 rounds(pipe dream) on $650-$800 barrel jobs. JUST imagine when accuracy on my rigs had opened up from 1/4-3/8" to 1" due to leade growth in 600 rounds where I could no longer get the bullet jump that the accuracy node liked!

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Yeah....those WSSM cartridges never looked copacetic to me. I always figured there would be feeding issues.

#4 is 25 WSSM:

Yes they do look "ODD BALL". we never had any issue with loading/ejecting. The Model 70 with CRF worked perfect. Jill and I went to Africa and she took several Plains Game animals with it. First shot and DRT! The issue was the groups kept getting bigger the more we shot it. At first, I thought it might have been Jill shooting (Big mistake) she shoots better than me and most men.
Didn't have a bore scope back then (2006) so didn't see the rifling damage.
My thoughts on purchasing was that this 25wssm had better ballistics than a 25-06 and not only could Jill shoot it - I could use it for Coyotes-it was a laser.
I am still sad that it didn't work out and not having it. It was a really nice rifle and a copy of my 325WSM Model 70 Ultimate Shadow in Camo.

 

[willfrye027]

25x284 is about perfect in a "mid" action with the 135s. Ideal for a tikka or similar build. It would not work as well in a short action.

25 creedmoor is perfect in a short action.

In my rifles the 25 creedmoor was within 100fps of my 25x284 shooting the same bullets, same barrel length. The effective hunting distance for both is beyond what I can shoot effectively in the field.

My conclusion was 25 creedmoor is giving me plenty of velocity and terminal performance with less recoil and muzzle blast. And the throat erosion on the 284 was pretty intense after only 400 rounds…25 creedmoor is hardly showing any cracking the throat after 800 now.

Both were "inherently" accurate and easy to load for, with a slight nod to the 284 case for easier load development and smaller overall group size.