223 Savage 10 re-barrel - now magazine will not feed into chamber ??

[westcliffe01]

I had a Savage 10 model PC in 223 which shot very well... So I wanted to "improve" it ......

I bought a Shilen barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8 twist rate with the intention of shooting 80gr Berger bullets for better ballistics and more long range energy.

At the same time, I changed the stock for a model 12 VLP stock, action length is identical.

I transferred the action and bottom metal and detachable magazine to the VLP stock. In my evaluation, the relative position of the magazine is the same as before relative to the action and there is minimal clearance between the bottom of the bolt and the magazine lips when the magazine is inserted.

If I try to chamber a round (55gr FMJ or 75gr HPBT factory ammo which I was shooting prior), the tip of the bullet now travels forward and hits the flat face of the barrel, below the chamber. There is just a tiny break edge where the chamber meets the face of the barrel. other than that this face is completely square and in no way acts to direct the tip of the bullet towards the chamber. The Savage factory barrel has a chamfer that is about 0.04-0.05" wide, so still pretty small on the edge of the chamber.

The way I recall, I used to occasionally have a problem feeding the rifle from the magazine with the original barrel, but now it is completely no-go. I think part of the problem is the smaller diameter of the case (relative to a 243 or 308 or 270) which results in the centerline of the bullet being lower than the larger cartridges to begin with. Then the smaller bullet diameter puts it further away from the ramp that is cut into the action so it gets no lift.

I know that the breech end of AR barrels have 2 feed ramps cut into it and that apparently works acceptably and I have also noticed that some other barrels are conical around the chamber instead of square. I don't want to weaken the chamber, nor do I want to create a bulge on the OD of the case, but it seems that some surgery is going to be needed to make this work unless I consider replacing the bottom metal and magazine altogether ?

Any advice for this combo ? Would a coned breech be acceptable ? That is how the barrel on my galil is finished at the chamber end, and it operates semi auto with no feed ramp. Of course I intend to run fairly hot (accurate) hand loads on this, which is my primary training rifle.

 

[4bycamper]

If I understand you right, the fed cartridge fails to point up enough to enter the chamber. Sounds like a feed lips problem. Try sanding or bending only the front of the mag feed to increase clearance for the fed cartridge. Be careful and go slowly with this because removing a little metal means a lot of angle. I have the same issue with my 6.5x284. And it's a long process.





Hope this helps.

 

[westcliffe01]

While adjusting the feed lips might work, I feel it would be a lot more reliable to guide the tip of the bullet, which is clearly what is done on many other rifles. The fact is that the bolt makes contact with the upper rear surface of the cartridge to provide motive force and that force tends to make the tip of the cartridge dive down, not go up. The only thing preventing a dive is the upward force of the follower, which is pretty weak in a Savage detatchable magazine. The force on an AR follower is quite different.

 

[westcliffe01]

Today in desperation, I pulled the entire build apart, took the scope and scope base off, action out the stock, barrel off the action.

I got out the original aluminum / nylon overmolded 10PC stock and got the special recoil lug matching the stock off the original 10PC barrel. Re-assembled the barrel action and recoil lug, being careful to properly orient the recoil lug since it is much narrower than the stock recoil lug (to fit in the aluminum channel in the stock).

Put it all back in the stock, bottom metal back in and lo and behold the magazine feeds perfectly.....

So I am not sure I understand what that means. The geometry of the earlier model 10/12 stocks that were made for the top sear and "normal" recoil lugs apparently does not jive well with parts of an accustock. When it is assembled everything appears to be normal but clearly is not. I think this problem is very specific to small diameter cartridges like the 223 which lie too low for the tip of the bullet to self feed into the chamber. To work, the leading and trailing edge of the magazine needs to just miss the bolt diameter so that the follower can position the cartridge high enough.

So for the short term the problem is solved, but the overmolded stock is really too light for a 26" barrel so the balance is off. I need to do a bit more relieving of material at the very fore end of the stock for barrel clearance under all circumstances (the 10PC had the same diameter muzzle but the barrel was only 20" long so a lot more tapered).

Now to sight in and see how it shoots. With the wedge, bedding should be great as is.