12GA Rounds for Grizz?

Buckshot with Small 33 cal balls with no mass for penetration is not for heavy game. Deer would be the biggest game I would shoot with buckshot. Heavy big bones and fat need a Breneke Original Slug for moose or bear.
I presume you've never shot TSS buckshot. Penetration is not an issue. Again, 64.3% denser than lead. TSS pellets do not deform. If you can collect them from a sand trap, they can be reloaded again.

And to be clear - one last time..., I do NOT recommend TSS buckshot for body shots on bear. You'll get plenty of penetration. But TSS buckshot seems to lack disabling shock effect on body hits. Unless you're so close the pellets hit in one solid mass. Like a 1" pattern. Maybe within ~5-10yds? I can't say from experience. I try to avoid bear encounters within 10yds.

TSS buckshot to head (brain) or neck (spinal cord) ..., dead bear.
 
Refer back to my post #359. Look in the column labeled TSS. Then find rows labeled "#1B" and "0000" in column TSS.

Each pellet of TSS #1B weighs 64.03gr.
Each pellet of TSS 0000 weighs 128.12gr.

Look above at my post #367; my combined load of 12 pellets #1B and one pellet of 0000, is 895 grains. Or 2.05oz.

We did finish one smaller grizzly in willows with this load of TSS buckshot. Bear was sitting up, and hit in brisket. Distance was ~15yds. All 13 pellets exited out the back of the bear.
Thank you again, yes... I get that part, the question; I was trying to determine the actual diameter of Tungsten 0000 buck, does it defer in any way, I know that TSS 000 seems to be .33 cal or 8.5 mm, is that right? where lead 000 is .36 cal or 9.14mm, I see that 0000 lead buck is .38 Cal or 9.65mm is Tungsten buck the same diameter? The bottom line just looking for the Tungsten 0000 buck diameter you are using, which would seem to be the one with the best chance of penetration. Sorry for the confusion. Cheers
 
Thank you again, yes... I get that part, the question; I was trying to determine the actual diameter of Tungsten 0000 buck, does it defer in any way, I know that TSS 000 seems to be .33 cal or 8.5 mm, is that right? where lead 000 is .36 cal or 9.14mm, I see that 0000 lead buck is .38 Cal or 9.65mm is Tungsten buck the same diameter? The bottom line just looking for the Tungsten 0000 buck diameter you are using, which would seem to be the one with the best chance of penetration. Sorry for the confusion. Cheers


Jesus, the guy already posted a chart with the information some of you are hounding him for, go look at it.
 
Jesus, the guy already posted a chart with the information some of you are hounding him for, go look at it.
Crap!!! Sorry... for some reason I missed that whole part... Geezzz! Ok guys I've woken up now. .37 cal or 9.59mm.... It's like it just appeared on my screen! Cheers
 
I can kill a bear with TSS buckshot at distances such that if I'm off 4-5" dead center, the bear still dies. Doesn't require the precise placement of a single projectile. 30 yds, dead bear with TSS buckshot thru the brain. TSS buckshot pattern at 25-30yds be ~8-10" diameter circle. Provides a little forgiveness in case I'm messing my britches and get a rough trigger pull.
phorwath,
read #382... I just pulled my head out of my A! Sorry for all the confusion, Cheers
 
All good! Glad you're following now. No worries...
So, after I got my head back on straight... I was just thinking, if I had a .37" inch near .38" inch projectile, weighing in at 128grs and at a velocity of 1200 fps, which was rounded not pointed, what would be near its performance level? Perhaps a 9mm or a weak .357 Mag in that weight of bullet 128gr? Granted tungsten has a much harder density than lead and copper.

Looking at distances; let's use the 30 yards mentioned rather than 10 yards... so in your experience and/or you've tested the tungsten load and got a 3" inch spread at 10 yards, Ok... then let's call it 9" at 30 yards, I think it would be larger at 30 yards, I'd think at 30 yards you might be looking at 20" to 25" inches of spread, but... we'll go with a pie plate size of 9" plus.

Back to the tungsten buckshot, .38 cal 128gr at 1200 fps, I'd say even from a handgun with that muzzle velocity would be a pretty weak load at 30 yards... granted you have more than one buckshot, but... they aren't hitting one behind the other so to speak... this doesn't seem to be an advantage over a Brenneke hard cast 602gr slug at 1502 fps and 3014 fpe with something in the order of 2" groups at 50 yards, that I have tested from my rifle barreled Ithica M37... and I was kind of thinking if the 10 yards group for the tungsten buckshot was 3" and the Brenneke, well it's diameter .72" inch with a semi pointed projectile, I'd think the possible miss factor(s) might be near the same, but... penetration is definitely on the side of the hard cast 12ga slug.

Now I'm speaking from an observation position on the subject, obviously, your experience plays into this conversation with a lot of authority, you live there and you have Bears we have black Teddy bears near where I am. But... I have traveled and fished the backcountry of Alaska over the years and from what I could gather at the time the slug was my best choice for what I was doing, yeah... if I was hunting big Grizz or Browns I'd have a big rifle, low end .375 H&H I have lived in Grizz country when we live in Idaho and most folks packed a fruit salad of firearms there for bear. I'm not trying to change your mind, as I said, you have what seems to be a lot of knowledge on the bear subject, I'm just having a conversation with another hunter. Cheers
 
So, after I got my head back on straight... I was just thinking, if I had a .37" inch near .38" inch projectile, weighing in at 128grs and at a velocity of 1200 fps, which was rounded not pointed, what would be near its performance level? Perhaps a 9mm or a weak .357 Mag in that weight of bullet 128gr? Granted tungsten has a much harder density than lead and copper.

Looking at distances; let's use the 30 yards mentioned rather than 10 yards... so in your experience and/or you've tested the tungsten load and got a 3" inch spread at 10 yards, Ok... then let's call it 9" at 30 yards, I think it would be larger at 30 yards, I'd think at 30 yards you might be looking at 20" to 25" inches of spread, but... we'll go with a pie plate size of 9" plus.

Back to the tungsten buckshot, .38 cal 128gr at 1200 fps, I'd say even from a handgun with that muzzle velocity would be a pretty weak load at 30 yards... granted you have more than one buckshot, but... they aren't hitting one behind the other so to speak... this doesn't seem to be an advantage over a Brenneke hard cast 602gr slug at 1502 fps and 3014 fpe with something in the order of 2" groups at 50 yards, that I have tested from my rifle barreled Ithica M37... and I was kind of thinking if the 10 yards group for the tungsten buckshot was 3" and the Brenneke, well it's diameter .72" inch with a semi pointed projectile, I'd think the possible miss factor(s) might be near the same, but... penetration is definitely on the side of the hard cast 12ga slug.

Now I'm speaking from an observation position on the subject, obviously, your experience plays into this conversation with a lot of authority, you live there and you have Bears we have black Teddy bears near where I am. But... I have traveled and fished the backcountry of Alaska over the years and from what I could gather at the time the slug was my best choice for what I was doing, yeah... if I was hunting big Grizz or Browns I'd have a big rifle, low end .375 H&H I have lived in Grizz country when we live in Idaho and most folks packed a fruit salad of firearms there for bear. I'm not trying to change your mind, as I said, you have what seems to be a lot of knowledge on the bear subject, I'm just having a conversation with another hunter. Cheers
The only advantage to TSS buckshot for a first round bear defense 12ga load, is forgiveness on head shots if my aim is slightly off. Use a pistol, revolver, or any firearm shooting a single projectile, and you have to place that single projectile into an ~6" diameter to brain a bear.

If my TSS buckshot load shoots an 8" pattern at 30 yds, my point of aim kill zone becomes ~14" diameter circle at 30yds. If my point of aim is 7" off the center of brain, I can still expect a TSS pellet to hit the brain. 3" (1/2 the width of the brain) plus 4" (1/2 the width of my TSS buckshot pattern). (3" + 4") X 2 = 14" diameter kill zone. Compared to 6" diameter with a single projectile. A substantial advantage, in my opinion.

If you can pinpoint the brain with a Brenneke slug or any other single projectile, of course that single projectile will produce a kill shot. The TSS buckshot load allows me to drop the bear with a head shot at 30yds even if the center of my TSS buckshot pattern is 7" off from dead centering the brain. This maximizes my chance if dropping the bear with my first shot.

If my first TSS buckshot load fails to drop the bear, the Brenneke slugs in the 870 mag will be pumped into the center of mass of the bear. Until the bear, or I, is/are dead.

Concerning depth of penetration of TSS buckshot pellets? The #0000 TSS buckshot penetrated as deeply into a live birch tree trunk as a hard cast 435gr slug from my 500 S&W revolver, launched atv1,250fps. The penetration of the TSS #1B was about 3" less than the #0000 buck. Plenty of penetration to brain a bear.

Your unbelief of the tight patterns with TSS pellets or buckshot would be a consequence of having never patterned TSS pellets on cardboard. TSS patterns are unbelievably tight, compared to lead pellets, because they're manufactured as perfect spheres, and remain perfect spheres thru launch, flight, and after impact.

An example of TSS pattern tightness..., I flat out dropped a Sandhill crane at 133yds with a 12ga load consisting of a duplex load of 1oz #4s and 1oz #5s. The crane was hit with 5 pellets and all pellets completely penetrated/exited the body. The crane was dead on impact. I didn't hit the crane I was shooting at. I hit the trailing crane which was 4 foot behind, and 2 feet lower than the one I aimed at. When I hunt cranes with TSS shotshells, I take along my Lazer rangefinder so I'll know my holdover heights. The TSS pellet pattern, and energy, remain lethal at such long distances that I need to know my holdovers past 80yds. My Sandhill crane load puts 50% of the pellets into a 30" diameter circle at 100yds. 77% of the pellets into a 30" diameter circle at 80yds. Try that with lead shot pellets. Not gonna happen with lead.
 
Last edited:
niHey guys, we have a long hunt in the heart of grizzly territory this year in Wyoming (archery)

We will have the call guy carry the short shotgun for defense in the timber.

Curious what rounds everyone uses or suggests would be the best? Slugs? Buck?

Thanks!
Both of them will work, depending on where you hit the bear and if the projectiles are hard enough to reach the vital organ, just make sure to water proof your ammo before the hunt. When it comes to stopping huge bears spinal and brain shots are the only organs that will give assurance to stop them. Also beware that you might only a shot to stop a charging bear from 25 yards using a high recoiling 12 gauge slugs or buck shoot. Aim for the brain as spinal cord will be hard to hit. Good luck.
 
The only advantage to TSS buckshot for a first round bear defense 12ga load, is forgiveness on head shots if my aim is slightly off. Use a pistol, revolver, or any firearm shooting a single projectile, and you have to place that single projectile into an ~6" diameter to brain a bear.

If my TSS buckshot load shoots an 8" pattern at 30 yds, my point of aim kill zone becomes ~14" diameter circle at 30yds. If my point of aim is 7" off the center of brain, I can still expect a TSS pellet to hit the brain. 3" (1/2 the width of the brain) plus 4" (1/2 the width of my TSS buckshot pattern). (3" + 4") X 2 = 14" diameter kill zone. Compared to 6" diameter with a single projectile. A substantial advantage, in my opinion.

If you can pinpoint the brain with a Brenneke slug or any other single projectile, of course that single projectile will produce a kill shot. The TSS buckshot load allows me to drop the bear with a head shot at 30yds even if the center of my TSS buckshot pattern is 7" off from dead centering the brain. This maximizes my chance if dropping the bear with my first shot.

If my first TSS buckshot load fails to drop the bear, the Brenneke slugs in the 870 mag will be pumped into the center of mass of the bear. Until the bear, or I, is/are dead.

Concerning depth of penetration of TSS buckshot pellets? The #0000 TSS buckshot penetrated as deeply into a live birch tree trunk as a hard cast 435gr slug from my 500 S&W revolver, launched atv1,250fps. The penetration of the TSS #1B was about 3" less than the #0000 buck. Plenty of penetration to brain a bear.

Your unbelief of the tight patterns with TSS pellets or buckshot would be a consequence of having never patterned TSS pellets on cardboard. TSS patterns are unbelievably tight, compared to lead pellets, because they're manufactured as perfect spheres, and remain perfect spheres thru launch, flight, and after impact.

An example of TSS pattern tightness..., I flat out dropped a Sandhill crane at 133yds with a 12ga load consisting of a duplex load of 1oz #4s and 1oz #5s. The crane was hit with 5 pellets and all pellets completely penetrated/exited the body. The crane was dead on impact. I didn't hit the crane I was shooting at. I hit the trailing crane which was 4 foot behind, and 2 feet lower than the one I aimed at. When I hunt cranes with TSS shotshells, I take along my Lazer rangefinder so I'll know my holdover heighths. The TSS pellet pattern, and energy, remain lethal at such long distances that I need to know my holdovers past 80yds. My Sandhill crane load puts 50% of the pellets into a 30" diameter circle at 100yds. 77% of the pellets into a 30" diameter circle at 80yds. Try that with lead shot pellets. Not gonna happen with lead.
Ok... I see where you are coming from, interesting viewpoint of the fundamental physics of the subject, thanks again, I do appreciate the information exchange. Good luck Cheers
 
Ive used 12ga 2-3/4 rifled slugs on Texas hogs to 200lb. Under 50 yds.. devastating. The gun is nicknamed "the hog roller" can't say about a ****ed out grizzly 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

They list 733 boxes available

Use this link for 10 retailers who have them in stock

Wow If those slugs were in Alaska I could sell them like hot cakes ! They disappear very quickly here if they hit the shelf. They will bust thru both shoulder blades of big brown bear…..most excellent !
 
Found three boxes at Wal mart of all places. Dang we're they expensive. Took 10 rounds to the range to try through the new shotgun and the boat shotgun that is a light little Steven's pump that cost all of 130$ on cleared some years ago.

Had two friends with me, all do fine with my 8 lbd 375 and ultralight 7mm. Neither wanted to shoot more than one or two of the 1 3/8 slugs. In the light pump it was brisk, for near 4 dollars a shot it is a tough sell. Found 2 more across town but they wanted 30$ a box. I'll keep a box for the boat but at 30$ per 5 its cheaper to get rolled than use those.....
 

Recent Posts

Top