MATCH Primer Ignorance

98s1lightning said:

I never used a MATCH primer, don't know anything about how they can effect your results.

Are they worth experimenting with in a sporter weight hunting rifle?

I'm thinking about my 284win SA;
if I am decided on a powder and bullet choice SHOULD I BE EXPERIMENTING WITH DIFFERENT PRIMERS TO POSSIBLY TIGHTEN UP THE GROUPS MORE?

I usually run Winchester Primers but I read a few thing on here about them being a poor choice? Idk, I never noticed an issue.

Winchester has been good to me in the event that I received defecting brass, they exchanged it for good pcs.

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You should just keep using your WINCHESTER primers

Here's my take on this. Winchester primers in both small and large or standard and magnum according to my results with the Pressure Trace show them to be the hottest primer available to me. Have I tried all brands. No.
I used both Federal and CCI match primers in both small and large sizes. The only difference I ever saw was with Federal 205M in my SRP Lapua 22-250AI loads, they definitely shrunk my ES/SD and the node was wider. Never saw the same results once using LRP Match primers. However, the largest shrinking of ES/SD for me was either using a magnum primer in a standard round (25-06) or using standard primers in a magnum.
I experiment with the 3 big brands (Winchester, Federal & CCI) but also with whatever type I have. Presently, CCI are unobtanium here, so I have Winchester, but no standard primers, or Federal which I have all flavours in small or large.

Cheers.

I think it's easy to see primer choice as an abstract, with no prediction of results.
Missed, is that the abstract in this is not a primer, but striking of it.

If you have only a single primer available, and you suspect better potential from your gun, you could optimize striking for that primer.
This is very much like full seating testing for a bullet, and likewise you do not need to shoot a bunch to see coarse results with each adjustment.
The best is obvious, and depending on your load condition, could be your biggest single improvement.
If your striking is inconsistent or poor otherwise, then your gun will not shoot as well as it could, and you may never know it.
A hidden gem.

From what I have read several times (on the internet, so it must be true), is that the Match primers are produced by the most experienced long time employees of the company, which results in them being more consistent. Not sure how an employee pushing a button or monitoring the assembly of the primer can make that much difference whether he has been there 2 years or 20 years.
I have used both the 215 and the 215M in my rifles, and have not noticed any difference in anything-velocity, accuracy, ES or SD on my chronograph. I use whichever is available and am satisfied with the results.

WapitiBob said:

I went from 215M to 215 and saw no difference. I then went from 215 to CCI 250, same powder charge, shot at 600 and saw noticeable improvement and am still using the 250's.

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Would you care to elaborate on this noticeable improvement you speak of. I have both but always used 215s. I understand results can vary but I'm interested in what you found.

Better groups.

Mikecr said:

I think it's easy to see primer choice as an abstract, with no prediction of results.
Missed, is that the abstract in this is not a primer, but striking of it.

If you have only a single primer available, and you suspect better potential from your gun, you could optimize striking for that primer.
This is very much like full seating testing for a bullet, and likewise you do not need to shoot a bunch to see coarse results with each adjustment.
The best is obvious, and depending on your load condition, could be your biggest single improvement.
If your striking is inconsistent or poor otherwise, then your gun will not shoot as well as it could, and you may never know it.
A hidden gem.

Click to expand...

The firing pin/bushing kit has solved m700 accuracy problems for me before.
And it was the only change I made.
A drastic improvement.

Those Federal 215 and 215M primers, do have the same ignition pellet . Difference is, the 215M's have been looked over by an ol retired Schoolmarm with glasses, who scans a tray with couple thousand finished primers and spots any anomaly, like an anvil, that just might be a smidge off. It's those types of flaws, that can't be detected by a machine. Anyone who's ever turned in a school report that they thought to be flawless, only to be returned with red underlines, question marks, words crossed out, and punctuation added, knows the observational precision and accuracy the ol Schoolmarm's looking for, on those Match grade primers at the Federal.

3chester said:

Those Federal 215 and 215M do have the same ignition pellet . Difference is, the 215M's have been looked over by an ol retired Schoolmarm with glasses, who scans a tray with couple thousand finished primers and spots any anomaly, like an anvil, that just might be a smidge off. It's those types of flaws, that can't be detected by a machine. Anyone who's ever turned in a school report that they thought to be flawless, only to be returned with red underlines, question marks, words crossed out, and punctuation added, knows the observational precision and accuracy the ol Schoolmarm's looking for on those Match grade primers at the Federal.

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Sounds good as long as she isn't surfing the net on her Cricket phone looking for the local AARP meeting while my load of primers are going through her station.

Weak firing pins can cause ignition issues as many have stated, which is over looked, change them out yourself on Remingtons.

When reloading at the rifle range, I work up the most accurate powder charge/bullet seating depth with my best guess on a primer, then I start trying different primers. I will not back off powder charge and start over, that is too much OCD for me. I am looking for the smallest hole group, not if all the bullets are in the same hole.

There are radical differences in the ignition characteristics of Winchester, CCI, Federal, and Remington primers, not only in flame intensity/size, but in the quantity of priming particles(if any) that are blasted through the powder column.

I am amazed how it is impossible to "pick" the best primer for a particular load, we are down to trial and error, make no mistake about it.

3chester said:

Those Federal 215 and 215M do have the same ignition pellet . Difference is, the 215M's have been looked over by an ol retired Schoolmarm with glasses, who scans a tray with couple thousand finished primers and spots any anomaly, like an anvil, that just might be a smidge off. It's those types of flaws, that can't be detected by a machine. Anyone who's ever turned in a school report that they thought to be flawless, only to be returned with red underlines, question marks, words crossed out, and punctuation added, knows the observational precision and accuracy the ol Schoolmarm's looking for on those Match grade primers at the Federal.

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CCI match primer inspection is quite impressive.

Not many ever mention the Winchester Mag primer, I have found that hard to ignite, slow burning powders may bug hole a load vs 1/2-5/8" with Fed215. The Win Mag primer and the 215 have a radical different ignition.

VinceMule said:

CCI match primer inspection is quite impressive.

Not many ever mention the Winchester Mag primer, I have found that hard to ignite, slow burning powders may bug hole a load vs 1/2-5/8" with Fed215. The Win Mag primer and the 215 have a radical different ignition.

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Yep agree there. Seems more than a few, first rate ammunition makers, use 215's for a reason too.

Everyone uses 215s without even trying a Win Mag primer...too bad. Also, often, the 215 and Win Mag are too hot, so this is where a cci 250 loves to shine.

The idea you can work up the same accuracy (small group) by adjusting the powder charge per primer is very ill- informed.

VinceMule said:

CCI match primer inspection is quite impressive.

Not many ever mention the Winchester Mag primer, I have found that hard to ignite, slow burning powders may bug hole a load vs 1/2-5/8" with Fed215. The Win Mag primer and the 215 have a radical different ignition.

Click to expand...

The Win. LR Magnum was highly recommended for large, compressed volumes of slow burning powder in my 460 S&W. I'm using them with zero complaints! memtb