Necessary precision to kill something

I think you will find that has been greatly improved as of late. As silly as it seems the problem is with a molecular level of hydrocarbons on the surface of the jacket and how that affects the draw of the jacket in the dies. The wash chemistry is the key to controlling that aspect. However it will be towards the end of the year before the equipment is in place to control it as well as we need to.
In the mean time the looks of the meplat are less important to precision than you would think, the ugliest still shoot less than 1/2 MOA in our 300 meter test tunnel.

Yes, trading a little BC for a more consistent BC is a wise choice.
Awesome! I appreciate the explanation and the update! Thank you for taking the time to explain. And yes, I've never seen them really shoot inaccurate, more of an OCD thing haha. But every little bit helps. Consistency is king for sure. Looking forward to seeing even more consistent bullets from you guys!
 
Awesome! I appreciate the explanation and the update! Thank you for taking the time to explain. And yes, I've never seen them really shoot inaccurate, more of an OCD thing haha. But every little bit helps. Consistency is king for sure. Looking forward to seeing even more consistent bullets from you guys!
I agree with you, never has affected accuracy for me. Although you approach it with a hunting frame of mind and I also agree with your post earlier about them needing some work. Now I've hunted with trimmed meplats and also with just tips cleaned with a wire drill. The trimmed bullets are much more violent, and I'd only do that if I was shooting a larger and heavier caliber bullet. If shooting something say below 180gr I'd leave the tip alone and just clean it with a wire drill. This is partial to even if the expansion is quick and violent, you still have a large chunk of lead coming through to wreck stuff in a less than ideal situation.
 
Not sure what the point is? Your not going to be able to predict a shot if the gun doesnt shoot small groups. A 1.5 moa rifle at 700yds is about 11". So in a zero wind condition, with a perfect shot you can only be sure your shot will be within 5.5" or your aim point. A half minute gun will put the shot within 1.8" of the aim point. I have lost count of how many 1000s of rounds I have fired at 1k, and a moa rifle is about useless out there. We all know we cant read all the wind and other conditions at long range and we cant break perfect shots every time. Not sure why we are trying to convince people you dont need all the accuracy you can get. My personal experience totally disagrees with this. I can see a big difference in hits and misses with even a 1/4 moa vs a 3/4 moa rifle.
 
Not sure what the point is? Your not going to be able to predict a shot if the gun doesnt shoot small groups. A 1.5 moa rifle at 700yds is about 11". So in a zero wind condition, with a perfect shot you can only be sure your shot will be within 5.5" or your aim point. A half minute gun will put the shot within 1.8" of the aim point. I have lost count of how many 1000s of rounds I have fired at 1k, and a moa rifle is about useless out there. We all know we cant read all the wind and other conditions at long range and we cant break perfect shots every time. Not sure why we are trying to convince people you dont need all the accuracy you can get. My personal experience totally disagrees with this. I can see a big difference in hits and misses with even a 1/4 moa vs a 3/4 moa rifle.
I think the point is that despite your level of accuracy, your chance of missing because of the wind is FAR greater than because of your group sizes. He wasn't trying to convince people they don't need accuracy, but that legit practice in field conditions is more important. Sitting at a bench shooting bug hole groups at 100 yards, and thinking you're going to go in the field, with zero field practice and wind calling, never setting up a stable position in the mountains, laying on rocks and at steep angle with adrenaline pumping, and think your tiny group rifle is going to make up for it, isn't going to work.

You're also not an "average" shooter lol.

And everything is base A LOT on intended yardages. If you plan to shoot 1300 yards, you're stuff better be dialed as best as possible, and then you better be willing to accept it when you miss the wind call and hit an animal in the *** and need to track them and kill them.

If you want to kill out to 500 yards, your stuff just needs to shoot well, and most of your time should be spent practicing at those yardages in field conditions.
 
Wind will make one of my accurate rifles look bad real quick. Especially on that first shot…shooter error and other stuff is involved. But if your rifle can hold moa to distance, you're killing a lot of animals!
You need to practice and log your first shots so you know your cold bore weather it be high, low or left or right. It will be the same every time. Unless you have one of those guns that doesn't move at all.
 
That's awesome info dude! One thing I cannot stand about Berger's, is their insanely inconsistent tips. They can vary by over .010 in length and have different angles to them. Some tips are collapsed, some are open. What the heck is up with that? Is there no way to correct that during manufacturing?
I had played with the Berger's and the tips for 1000 yd matches. If I squared the tips I lost coefficient. I tried squaring and re tipping and still coefficient was not as good. So I tested shooting squared tips, squared tips and repointed and then took the saber tooth tips and just repointed them a little more and had better groupings with the saber tooth tip's repointed. Matter of fact I shot 2 matches and shot 4" 10 groups with saber tooth bullets just pointed a little more. Take it for whatever it is worth.
 
I had played with the Berger's and the tips for 1000 yd matches. If I squared the tips I lost coefficient. I tried squaring and re tipping and still coefficient was not as good. So I tested shooting squared tips, squared tips and repointed and then took the saber tooth tips and just repointed them a little more and had better groupings with the saber tooth tip's repointed. Matter of fact I shot 2 matches and shot 4" 10 groups with saber tooth bullets just pointed a little more. Take it for whatever it is worth.
What are you referring to as saber tooth bullets? The LRHT's?
 
You need to practice and log your first shots so you know your cold bore weather it be high, low or left or right. It will be the same every time. Unless you have one of those guns that doesn't move at all.
I've got those no shift rifles 😎 perks of them fancy customs by quality gunsmiths. I have a really humbling spot to practice. Lots of switch and blind wind, shooting across canyon with a curving valley. Really helps me dial in my "bad wind call" yardage for hunting. On those calm days it's easy, but those windy days are real!

That's why I have the 300nmi with a 245 Berger, helps cheat the wind a bit😂
 
I agree 100% and shooting under field conditions really separates those who can and those who can't. Wounding an animal is not an option.
The main key is being realistic about where you fall on that continuum. I take my 308 to 1100yds on steel and feel good about my accuracy. 500 is my max when shooting at game animals.
 
I do the same, but why can't they just make them correct at the factory lol. Why do I need a $200 meplat trimmer and spend a bunch of time trimming meplats, when they should just come that way hahaha.
Drawn copper jackets certainly aren't a precise operation like say lathe turned copper.

I really don't know if it matters. The nose is pretty thin and seems to upset pretty well even on the LRHT bullets with almost have a closed nose.
 
Velocity variation doesn't matter nearly as much as most people think either. Below 10fps SD you'll see next to no improvement. The difference between 15fps and 3fps is about a 3% increase in hit probability at 700yd.

Improving your wind reading, choosing a good cartridge, and using a good rangefinder have a significantly bigger impact than anything you can do at the bench. Two of those you can throw money at, one takes a lot of practice and rounds down range. The vast majority of shooters would be better off with a load they can put togeter quickly and inexpensively, and spending their time and money at the range rather than the bench.
Yet, but at 50fps it's about 14" @ 1000yd or so. How many people really get their ES & SD really down. 30fps is about 8" @ 1000yds. Bottomline is know your load and it's going out where you want it on a cold shot. After that it's petty easy. Wind becomes the hardest to figure. I don't reload to do it quickly, I reload to get bullet placement. Yes the range time is improvement too. That really learning how you bullet flys through the air. Before range finders were worth anything. I came up with tragets size tha used the animal size from top of back to bottom belly. I used a duplex scope. 2x7 or 8. On full powder I could determine it the animal was 300, 400 and 500yds out. ES & SD don't make much difference @ 500yds anyway. No twisting the nobes, just where to hold the crosshairs at those ranges. My rifle POI would be about 3" lower from top of back in each 100 yardage change to 500yds. With the rifle it's learning to stabilize it and don't jeck the trigger. Cool Hand Luke!
 
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