Bullet speeds.

Are some makes or stles of bullets faster then others. When I ask this I mean when we are loading same caliber and weight of bullet. The reason I am asking is I was trying to work up a load in my 300 Wby using the 212 ELDX. They just would not group so I had 6 210 VLD Berger and tried them. Seated ,120 off the lands they grouped at .344. So as per my question will the Bergers shoot faster or does it vary from rifle to rifle.

I'm not understanding why your asking if one bullet is faster than the other because you couldn't get the eldx to shoot and Bergers did.
As far as Bergers shooting, out of dozens of rifles I've did load development for only 1 wouldn't what I consider shoot good 1 m.o.a no matter what I did nothing else shot better either im pretty sure it was a chamber problem and not a Berger issue.
It was a semi- custom rifle

but yes some are faster than others.

You kind of asked two separate questions it seems.

In regards to are some bullets faster than other bullets of the same weight....the answer is yes. Each bullet has a different bearing surface, which is friction. So a short bearing surface bullet will have less drag and shoot faster than a long bearing surface bullet.

In your comment regards to Berger vs ELD in accuracy doesn't have anything to do with speed, however, some guns/barrels will have a preference to bullets and or bullet and powder combinations and even just a different primer or seating depth.

Hope this helps,
Steve

WildBillG said:

Are some makes or stles of bullets faster then others. When I ask this I mean when we are loading same caliber and weight of bullet. The reason I am asking is I was trying to work up a load in my 300 Wby using the 212 ELDX. They just would not group so I had 6 210 VLD Berger and tried them. Seated ,120 off the lands they grouped at .344. So as per my question will the Bergers shoot faster or does it vary from rifle to rifle.

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A lot of times match bullets have a thinner jacket than typical hunting bullets, and a softer lead core. This along with bearing surface length can make a difference in how fast you can push a particular bullet. For example 30 cal 200 gr accubonds has a thicker jacket & the lead core is harder than a 208 eld. I was able to push the 208 just as fast & faster than the 200 gr accubond before reaching similar pressure signs but nothing is ever set in stone. There's to many variables among many things.

I guess I was not to clear in my post. What I wanted to know is are some bullets always faster. With bullet weight,caliber and charge weight being equal. The part about theElDX was just useless information. How ever I thought that the speed of a fast bullet in one rifle may be slower then a slower bullet in a different rifle.

djfergus those variables are a part of my question. Thank you for bringing them up. What you are saying is that in another rifle the 200 AB may be faster than the ELD.

WildBillG said:

djfergus those variables are a part of my question. Thank you for bringing them up. What you are saying is that in another rifle the 200 AB may be faster than the ELD.

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It's very well possible with variability of actual bore dimension, land & groove diameter & configuration.

There's barrels that folks have got in the past that seems faster or slower than the average but I would also say that particular barrel situation could yield better or worse velocity results if several bullets types were tried but at the end of the day it may not end up being the most accurate bullet combination or desired bullet that the shooter would want to use.

I notice I get a "free" 80-100 fps over other jacketed bullets with the same load when I use Barnes TTSX...I think the friction bands result in less friction from the reduced bearing surface than other bullets I've tried. I also seem to pick up a bit more velocity at the same approximate burn rates for a class of powder using Aliant RL series powders. So when I can I try to pair Barnes TTSX/LRX bullets with Alliant powders.

WildBillG said:

Are some makes or stles of bullets faster then others.

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Simple answer: YES. But their are many reasons why this is. Bearing surface, jacket thickness, bullet profile, jacket smoothness, core hardness, actual bullet diameter (i.e .3085 vs .3079), jacket material and friction ratio, etc. In many handguns, hard cast lead bullets can be driven faster than jacketed.

Decades ago, we conducted a very informal test with a few of our firearms, and we found variations of +/- 100 fps or so with some bullets/calibers just by changing bullet manufacture and styles. Then after we chrono'd a few loads, we took the same bullets and using 000/0000 steel wool, we horizontally polished/abraded a few bullets and loaded. What we we found was interesting. We suspected the light abrasions would reduce the velocity, and on some bullets/loads, it did slightly, but on a couple of bullet/loads, the vels actually went up. Not by much, but it was recordable on the chrono averages.

As a bullet swager, I have played with varied design changes that produced higher or lesser vels for the same weight of bullets. Biggest factors I found were bearing surface and jacket material/smoothness. Brass jacketed bullets vs guilding or copper of the same style/weight gave increased vels due to the higher zinc content in the brass with a lower friction ratio.

To reduce bore friction and help vels, through the decades, manufactures have used various coatings with varied success.

Ronald W Schaefer said:

I notice I get a "free" 80-100 fps over other jacketed bullets with the same load when I use Barnes TTSX...I think the friction bands result in less friction from the reduced bearing surface than other bullets I've tried.

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Thats an interesting observation.

This is what Barnes says-

What is the TSX Bullet and what does it do?

Barnes' TSX Bullet offers all the deadly effectiveness of the time-proven X Bullet. Features include all-copper construction, no fragmentation, rapid expansion, 28% deeper penetration than lead-core bullets, and maximum weight retention. The TSX has proven to be one of the most accurate hunting bullets available–a fact countless shooters have confirmed. An exclusive feature of the TSX Bullet is multiple, precisely engineered rings cut into the bullet shank. These grooved rings act as relief valves as bullet metal flows under pressure while traveling down the bore. Instead of flowing from the front to the base of the bullet, the copper material expands into the grooves. This results in reduced pressures and less copper fouling. Reduced pressures mean the bullet can be safely loaded to higher velocities. The rings also alter barrel harmonics, greatly improving accuracy.

Aushunter1, thanks for the reply with info from Barnes. I had never seen that before but good to knw my logic was correct and I wasn't' imaging that! I have used Barnes bullets for loads in .243 Win, 240 Wby, 25-06 .257 Wby, 6.5 CM, .260 Rem, .270 Win, 7mm-08 Rem, 7mmRem Mag, .300 AAC/Blk, .308 Win, 30-06 Sprngfld, .300 Win Mag, .300 Wby Mag and 375 H&H--all calibers showed measurable velocity increase over other brand bullets.

Ronald W Schaefer said:

Aushunter1, thanks for the reply with info from Barnes. I had never seen that before but good to knw my logic was correct and I wasn't' imaging that! I have used Barnes bullets for loads in .243 Win, 240 Wby, 25-06 .257 Wby, 6.5 CM, .260 Rem, .270 Win, 7mm-08 Rem, 7mmRem Mag, .300 AAC/Blk, .308 Win, 30-06 Sprngfld, .300 Win Mag, .300 Wby Mag and 375 H&H--all calibers showed measurable velocity increase over other brand bullets.

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I've never used any Barnes projectiles but they are certainly under my radar.
This info is just another added reason to move over for me when the times right..............maybe?

They are a lot more expensive than what I use but for the amount I shoot once I have done LD they would work out.